Wild West shootout with trench crusade rules

[Schlaumeier]

This year I've played two Wild West games with a friend, using the trench crusade rules. Trench crusade for Wild West might sound like a stretch, but as TC has rules for pistols, rifles and (double barreled) shotguns - why not? The rules make for a fast and fun game and the vibes are about right for a wild west shootout. I just felt that the double barreled shotgun was a bit overpowered, as it can give off two devastating shots each round, whereas revolvers can only shoot once per round. Maybe we need to come up with rules for reloading. Or maybe I just need to get over tha fact that my mountain men got blasted to pieces with that shotgun.

[mweaver]

Bigger setups where rangers are longer might help.  Shotguns really are nasty!

Nice terrain setup.

-Michael

[terrement]

Not familiar with the TC rules but generally speaking you might consider a few things.

Shotgun - when you said two devastating shots per turn, are you talking about a barrel into two different targets, or a single target getting both barrels?
 - reloading would seem to be a logical requirement.  no movement while reloading?  limit the number of shells for reloading?

pistols - do you differentiate between single action and double action?  Single action means you need to take an action to cock the revolver and another to pull the trigger.  Double action cocks and shoots with a single action.  So double action could fire twice (at the same target) in the same time
 - do you allow for fanning?  More "Hollywood" than not, you still might consider it.

rifles - do you differentiate between trap door carbines and rifles (load a round, shoot it, eject shell, load next round) and lever action rifles like the Henry and Winchester repeaters? 
 - perhaps more accurate if you are using the single shot at a specific target as opposed to levering off 3-4 shots into the general area in the same time but the multiple shots might be a better capability for suppressing one or more targets in the same area, as well as the possibility of hitting more than one target if grouped together.  A single shot from either, when aimed, I would thing would be comparable.

Again, these things I mentioned are not based on the TC rules with which I have no familiarity, just thoughts and observations from shooting I've done.

[Schlaumeier]

Thanks for your input Terrement.

About the guns:
It's two shots at two different targets. Remaining stationary while reloading makes sence.
No differentiation between single and double action revolvers.
And no differentiation between kinds of rifles.

For the most parts I do like the simplicitiy that lies in that.

What is fanning in this context?

[terrement]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
As someone who has shot a wide variety of pistols and long guns I was trying to offer suggestions to your basic question about the shotgun being too lethal as currently described in your rules.  If you are trying to “ level theplaying field” my thoughts would be along the lines of the following.

Firing a shotgun at two separate targets will take longer than single shots at a single target.  A single action revolver must be cocked before each shot. A double action revolver can shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger. Fan a revolver and you can put a lot of shots well six anyways faster than any method of pulling the trigger.. What you gain in speed it’s a trade-off against accuracy and the need to reload faster. Historically actual gunfighters Bill Hickcock, the Earps,  Bat Masterson, Dallas Stoudenmeyer, and other of the big names had no regard for fanning and reportedly never did so..Their approach was that the slight gain in speed would always be less effective than a slightly slower but more accurate shots.  With the competitive shooters today there are some remarkably fast and accurate ones even shooting at multiple targets.  For gaming purposes, you might allow more Hollywood with some tinkering with an accuracy penalty.

I’d be happy to go the simpler route of considering the six guns the same in speed as each other. 


I’d allow two shots from revolvers at the same target in the same time as a single target shot by a shotgun whether you are shooting a single barrel or both at a single target.

For the revolvers you might consider a minor accuracy plus if just shooting a single shot but doing some level of aiming.   Not the same level of accuracy as with a carefully aiming and not rushed shot.

If you’ve watched Tombstone, the OK Corral shootout is probably the best film representation of the historical record.  If you’ve watched Open Range, most of the big showdown is pretty reasonable.  It has a great example early on in the shooting with Kevin Costner fanning about ten shots out of his six gun. ??


With my revolver I can squeeze off several shots fairly quickly and still have a grouping you can cover with your hand.  But I’m not doing a fast draw and shooting from the hip.  Would not typically be using all six shots on a single target.  Even more  critical if there are more than one opponent.  Consideration also would go to whether I had enough shots to do what I needed.  What cover was available,  how good the opponents were,  whether I had others backing my play, and more.  Even non gunslingers were known to carry two sixguns- not to use simultaneously like the Lone Ranger but to have six more shots without reloading.


Don’t have them handy but I’ll post some links to you tube videos for your consideration.

Cheers

[Schlaumeier]

Thanks for the input Terrement.

I don't get to play this game very often. My friend who plays by the trench crusade rules lives a four hour drive away. But recently I had the chance to stop by and we gave it another try.

Apparently the core rules about shot guns changed (or that's just what Mark said, so I would be less frustrated?). In any case, they were less deadly this time. Also, we introduced rules for reloading. It worked quite well I think.

We came up with a scenario where one side wants to steal a coffin from the local grave yard, in order to sell the body to a medical professor, so he can practice autopsy with his students. And the other side has to stop them taking grandpa away. It was fun.

[FifteensAway]

Well, that is a unique idea for a scenario.  Creative. 

[terrement]

We came up with a scenario where one side wants to steal a coffin from the local grave yard, in order to sell the body to a medical professor, so he can practice autopsy with his students. And the other side has to stop them taking grandpa away.

I hope they know to not take that wooden stake through his chest out.  That's a side scenario if you play Dracula's America or any other Horror flavored western