Red Army - post civil war, pre-1930s

[trev]

Wonderful detail! 

[Mike Blake]

Cuprum,
  You are amazing.

What he said!

[FramFramson]

The whole subject is fascinating because it seems Red Army uniforms kept changing bit by bit from the late 20's all the way through to the middle of the war.

I asked Cuprum for help with the mid-to-late 30's uniform a few years ago and by then the Budenovka cap had been phased out, the Pilotka side cap had been phased in, and rank marks or stripes started to appear on the forearms of uniform sleeves for middle and higher ranks.

So painting of Red Army troops can be very very specific to narrow time periods! Of course for gaming purposes you can always fudge things a bit using older figures who may be "late" in recieving new kit (especially out in the Back of Beyond), but only by a couple of years.

[cuprum]

In fact, the uniform changes quite often in some details and, for example, in ten years these differences will already be noticeable in the general image. This is not counting some cardinal one-time changes.
By the way, Budennovka, as a winter headdress, was canceled in 1940, after the Soviet-Finnish war. Then it was replaced by a hat with earflaps. But budenovka continued to be issued from warehouses (mainly to the rear parts) until the stocks in warehouses were exhausted (until 1942).

[FramFramson]

Ah, well there you are. Our BoB figures would be a total mess without your help Cuprum! 

[Wyrmalla]

I'd be curious on what sort of armour was being used in that period. As far as combat vehicle I'd assume that the T-18 Tank would make an appearance (as far as I'm aware it was shelved only after the Sino-Soviet conflict in the early 30s, only to reappear again in WWII). Though perhaps some T-27 tankettes, Renault FTs, or Civil War era armour would have been around? Certainly armoured cars seem to be the mainstay.

[cuprum]

Yes you are right. Here it will be appropriate to use the T-18 (MS-1), the T-27 tankette, and the BA-27 armored car. Armored vehicles of the period of the First World War were hardly suitable for real military operations by this time. Could be used as training.
Tank T-18 in 1941 was used only as a fixed firing point in the fortified areas.

[Mark Plant]

The Red Army paraded captured Renaults and Mark Vs up to 1930, and they were used in exercises (at least for propaganda purposes) till then too. But that doesn't imply that they could operate in anger.

But other than immediately after the RCW, there's no chance they would be used. Two FT-17s are shown in the Far Eastern Republic forces up to 1922 though.

To me it would be one or the other. If you have T-18s, T27s and BA-27s then you don't have WWI vehicles.

[Wyrmalla]

Perhaps off topic, but is there any information out there on what sorts of armoured vehicles would have been available for the 1934 Soviet Invasion of Xinjiang?

That period seems a bit of a grey area between when earlier vehicles were going out of service, and newer ones had yet to have been developed.

[cuprum]

During the battles of 1933, the "Altai Army" (as the Soviet contingent was called for secrecy purposes) was armed with R-5 aircraft, BA-27 armored vehicles, 76-mm mountain guns and 37-mm Hotchkiss cannons, Maxim and Degtyarev machine guns, Dyakonov's rifle mortars. There were pack (on horse) of shortwave radio stations. The soldiers and commanders were dressed in the uniform of the White Guards.
In 1934, the intensity of the fighting decreased, the situation was considered resolved and the withdrawal of Soviet troops to the territory of the USSR began. They began to transfer heavy weapons and equipment to the Chinese.
But soon the uprising broke out with renewed vigor. In 1937, 15 BT-7A tanks with a short 76-mm cannon were sent to Xinjiang, the same command tank (with a handrail antenna) and a reconnaissance platoon - five light amphibious T-38 tanks. A total of 21 armored vehicles, 78 people. The soldiers were dressed in local civilian robes and hats; the use of Soviet symbols was strictly prohibited.

[trev]

That's an interesting little scenario for some games. Thanks.

[FramFramson]

Amazing historical tidbit!