Rules Recommendation for Monmouth Rebellion and other late C17th Conflicts?

[SJWi]

Good Morning everyone. I've recently begun to dabble in matters late 17th century and later in the month am visiting Sedgemoor and the sites associated with the Monmouth Rebellion. The more I read about it the more I'm attracted to the late 17th century as a gaming period.  I am thinking of using the Baccus 10mm figures but was wondering what rules would work both for the period and in particular that scale of figure. I see lots of rules that claim to be scale agnostic but when you read them really am not! Thanks for any suggestions.

[SJWi]

My mistake. I should say Pendraken for 10mm not Baccus. That said maybe I'll look at 6mm as an alternative .

[OB]

I use Beneath the Lily Banners-War of Three Kings.  Written for the period, easy to learn and lots of fun. There is a suggested basing system but any will work providing you use the same for both sides.

The Pendraken range is excellent and had I not already been heavily committed to 15mm I would have used it.

Good luck in your search.

[SteveBurt]

What size of battle? Large battle, small battle, skirmish?

[SJWi]

Steve, definitely not skirmish, but then as this will be a bit of a sideline for me as none of my mates are interested and I will have to build both sides I guess I will start small battle. My initial interest is the Monmouth Rebellion which is pretty small but I can see myself becoming more immersed in the wars of William III. so would like a set of rules that can handle both .I prefer rules where say a base of figures ( say 30 in 10mm) is the basic manoeuvre unit.     

[fastolfrus]

Lily Banners War of the 3 Kings is aimed at the James II - William III campaigns, but should work for Monmouth, there's not much shift from 1685 - 1689.
Basic units are generally 2 or 3 bases of foot (in 28mm it expects a rectangular base of 6 figures but I know some players who use 10mm with the same size base but put extra figures on). There is a facebook group where players swap hints & ideas.
Command is fairly crucial.
Barry Hilton also produced a number of PDF scenario packs (available from the League of Augsberg webstore: https://www.leagueofaugsburg.com/shop/products-subcat-62.html) which were done during lockdown and are mostly small enough for one person to get both sides, one of the scenario packs is the Argyll rising 1685.

[PBR Streetgang]

I have been slowly painting up some of Pendraken's 10mm range for Monmouth as a side project, here are some links to photos http://lecoqfou.blogspot.com/2022/02/more-pendraken-painting-competition-2022.html and http://lecoqfou.blogspot.com/2022/02/pendraken-painting-competition-2022.html

Helion has a ruleset called In Deo Veritas where one base equals one unit, it looks promising and I will try to give it a go. Sedgemoor is a challenging battle of sorts because its kind of a small battle and it's a bit challenging to rate the rebel forces and you need to craft scenario rules to give the rebels a chance to win.

The late 17th century is an interesting period as far as wargaming because it isn't really pike and shot but it isn't completely the horse and musket 18th century. The pike was still present but not in the numbers like pike and shot era and were disappearing from the ranks, bayonets were beginning to make an appearance.

I purchased Beneath the Lily Banners several times (different editions) but never really used them. They are definitely a dedicated set for the period. I have Scaniar War in 6mm and whenever I get around to painting them up, I will either go with In Deo Veritas or perhaps even Sam Mustafa's Maurice.

[SJWi]

Thanks for the Helion suggestion. I must admit I had thought them a dedicated set for Thirty Years War/ECW, plus I was dubious about how good they are a bit like I have suspicions about most of the Osprey offerings . There are some reviews plus U-Tube play-throughs which I will look at. Maurice have always intrigued me but are damn hard to track down in UK. I can find them at Caliver Books but the rules/card deck package is £60 which is a bit steep for me, albeit they could probably also work with my 15mm Seven Years War. 

[PBR Streetgang]

I haven't played IDV yet, I've read through it. As a ruleset, they attempt to span a period containing alot of change; It covers the ECW/TYW and also the latter portion of the 17th century (like the Scanian War). In order to this, they are a bit generic in some aspects so they might be a bit like some of the Ospreys (which can be very good or very meh). We'll see.

Maurice is an interesting ruleset, it has basic mechanics and a set of cards that force the player to make difficult decisions ("Should you invoke a round of musket for? Do I hold this card for the event or burn it for command radius to issue an order?").

Through the use (or non-use) of "National Characteristic" cards and optional period rules, you can replicate the different eras of the 18th century and the various countries involved. It's not everyone's cup of tea but I like them. I plan to use them for the French Revolution as well.

[SirRoystonPapworth]

We use BtLB for Jacobite’s in Ireland.

I think there is a good set of rules in there. However..

They are not the clearest written of rules. For some things it is a struggle to work out what is meant and I am sure this has lead us to doing an awful lot wrong…

We have even subsequently tried the old Crusader Publishing Rank & File set.

If you don’t mind grids, you might like For King & Parliament. This is next on our list to try. They are  for the ECW, but I feel they should be able to be used straight out of the box for the early 9YW.

[SJWi]

Sir Royston, Beneath the Lily Banners intrigues me and Barry Hilton obviously knows his period. Shame it appears to be only available as a PdF and I prefer print. I'm currently watching some videos of "Twilight of the Sun King" published by the Pike and Shot Society which could be an option. I have "For King and Parliament" and like both it and its TTS ancient predecessor so have no issue with grids. I'm not knowledgeable enough about later 17th century warfare to know how much had changed since the ECW.

[OB]

I don't know if you have seen the QRF for Beneath the Lil Bnners-War of Three Kings.  If not here it is, it might be some use to you.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17qi9VoAmY3BlF1jvs2p_dSmtw6E1dsga/view

[SirRoystonPapworth]

Hi Simon,

This is my rationale..

Cavalry were either (using BtLB categories) Blade or Bullet in the 1690s, charging home with the blade or discharging their pistols at close range..  These translate nicely to Swedish and Dutch.

Infantry is not quite as not quite as clear. The proportion of pike has reduced from roughly 1/3 to 1/4. So, you want the option for a musket heavy unit. Armament wise, you are still looking at mainly matchlocks to start, with a much higher proportion of flintlocks at the end. But, the option is there.

Tactics were still the same, they were probably just a bit better at it..

Of course some may feel that warfare changed far more than this over the 45 years, but for me it is close enough

[SJWi]

Sir Royston, I presume your "rationale" refers to using "For King and Parliament". I'll give it a go as this will be a slow burner of a project as I have lots of other irons in various fires plus need to buy and paint both sides for this one. I'll be doing it in 10mm and have a gridded mat on order for something else which will do just fine.  I might look at another set of rules as well just to compare and if possible organise and base my units to fit several sets of rules.