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Author Topic: Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames  (Read 1932 times)

Offline Easy E

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Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames
« on: December 20, 2023, 03:34:09 PM »
As we all know, the 4Ms of Wargame Design are Movement, Melee, Missiles, and Morale.  However, those broad categories cover a wide range of areas.  My recent look into Logistics and RPG-Lite spawned some great discussion on various places online, and those types of discussions help energize my thoughts.  The topic of exhaustion and fatigue came naturally came up in these discussion and I felt like that was an area I needed to spend some time thinking about.  Fatigue and Exhaustion probably fit into the Morale part of the 4Ms, but I wanted to take a deeper dive into modeling exhaustion in miniature wargaming.

A short discussion about Fatigue and Exhaustion on the blog:
https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2023/12/wargame-design-sometimes-i-just-get-so.html



The summary is that Fatigue is a great way to add Chrome to a game.  It allows you to add in some great gameplay elements such as:

- Resource Management
- Unit Management
- Add a Tactical Layer
- Morale Elements
- Victory Conditions

Designers should think about how to represent Fatigue in their games' design goals, and how they want to represent fatigue on the tabletop. 

So, what games have you run across that handle Fatigue and Exhaustion really well?  How did they do it?  Was it integrated into other rules or stand-alone rules?  How do you feel about exhaustion and Fatigue in a rules system?
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Offline jon_1066

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Re: Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2023, 04:16:41 PM »
Shock in Chain of Command also represents some kind of fatigue (you take Shock when running as well as from enemy fire)

Any game that doesn't model fatigue either implied or explicit is really missing something in my opinion.  Fighting a battle has to be the single most exhausting thing someone can do.

I like the sound of Blood on the Sands as it incorporates it into the heart of the game.  Simply fighting gains fatigue, wounds add more, and as fatigue builds you lose actions.  You can try and rest to regain it but that's not easy when you have the crowd wanting more action and your opponent is trying to bash you still.

Offline Belligerentparrot

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Re: Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2023, 09:38:30 PM »
Interesting to think about this in a campaign setting too. Things like forced marches, or poor supply lines (hunger is tiring) meaning the army starts the battle under some restrictions.

I've no idea how you'd work out the risk/reward that'd go into forced marches, but it'd be fun to work out how to balance the disadvantage in terms of fatigue on your own forces with the advantage in terms of position/morale the rapid move achieves.

As an aside, in futuristic games there are sometimes rules governing addiction/side-effects to prolonged use of performance enhancing drugs. That is a kind of fatigue too, I guess!

Offline Freddy

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Re: Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2023, 10:15:25 PM »
Kontraband (stalker themed skirmish) has a great mechanic for this. Every model has a base action point value (1 for rookies, 2 for solid, 3 for hardass), this many actions they can take in a normal turn. But they also have  a Stamina value and a swiftness/reflex value. In every turn they have the opportunity to roll as many dice as their stamina whenever they like: each roll that goes under their reflexes means a a free action (nice when they are done with their actions but suddenly a new monster appears), but each roll they fail their reflexes by lowers the stamina by 1 (so one less dice to try with next time). This way they begin the game ,,fresh" and get more and more weary during the game to the point the player decides to retreat them as they are unable to quickly react for new dangers (it is a campaign game and their stamina fills up between the games). You can easily apply this mechanic to any game
-it means some bookkeeping, but you do not have to do this in a per unit base, in a company scale game just assign these values to the 3-4 platoon commands for the platoon units to use.
-why could not you go push to the limits and risk/sacrifice the normal activations too, pushing them to the point where they are unable to move?
-a lot of new mechanics for each setting, the value of reflexes can mirror how well or felxibly the force is led, and the Stamina can be lowered/increased by game effects (in the ancient Hispania a well can regrow it, and for example in the original Kontraband the radioactivity lowers it)

Offline Dice Roller

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Re: Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2023, 08:11:02 AM »
If fatigue must feature in a battle, then so must adrenalin.
A shot of adrenalin gives you a lot of energy and motivation, and nothing provides adrenalin like fear (such as the threat of imminent death found on the battlefield).
That adrenalin rush can easily offset fatigue during the moment of the fight - both the emotional strain and the physical exertion.

So whilst I fully agree that fatigue has a place in a game I think it would be better represented in a campaign, where the post-battle tiredness would have the greatest effect on an army.
Most wargames focus on the actual point of battle and the fighting that takes place. I would contend that adrenalin counteracts the fatigue of fighting. But this all comes back, with interest, during the lull after the fight.
That's when it saps the troops' motivation, energy, and will to continue. Both emotional fatigue and physical fatigue.

Offline ced1106

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Re: Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2023, 09:13:44 AM »
Some dungeoncrawlers (eg, Descent and Conan) use fatigue as a regenerating resource you spend on various actions. However, I don't remember them having a direct penalty for low energy, just that you can't do as many things as you want to do in a turn. Conan felt like you spewed your energy cubes do to all the cool things you wanted early in the game, then ran on fumes as your energy meekly regenerated. :P

Gloomhaven has you permanently losing a card from your discard pile, which is then returned to your hand. Feels more like you're losing car parts than being fatigued.

fwiw, D&D had a "wounded" state, and some games had you flip over the stat card for reduced abilities. HeroClix has that dial to click down as you take wounds.

I think fatigue is a good concept, but it's implementation has to be done right, both game simulation and bookkeeping. Perhaps a rondel with a timer marker? Each unit would have its marker on the rondel and the rondel would progress during the game. If a unit rested, it would move "back" a space on the rondel. The number of spaces the unit's marker is away from the timer marker would indicate its level of fatigue and penalties? Or some other path, such as a path of cards which would have the penalties for units in play. Or the usual bookkeeping of putting a token or card on a card for each turn or action it had taken without resting...
Crimson Scales with Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper!
https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/

Offline carlos marighela

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Re: Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2023, 09:50:57 AM »
For added realism give the players benzedrine and see what happens to their decision making.  :)
Em dezembro de '81
Botou os ingleses na roda
3 a 0 no Liverpool
Ficou marcado na história
E no Rio não tem outro igual
Só o Flamengo é campeão mundial
E agora seu povo
Pede o mundo de novo

Offline Belligerentparrot

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Re: Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2023, 10:18:30 AM »
For added realism give the players benzedrine and see what happens to their decision making.  :)

Can confirm that this is hilarious at first, then very annoying.

Offline Harry Faversham

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Re: Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2023, 11:42:16 AM »
My bods don't usually live long enough to  get 'tired'!

 :o
"Wot did you do in the war Grandad?"

"I was with Harry... At The Bridge!"

Offline dickiegranthum

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Re: Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2023, 08:58:33 PM »
For added realism give the players benzedrine and see what happens to their decision making.  :)

Used to take it as a prescription, was supposed to be for the “crash” of Vyvanse (lisdexamphetamine); often used it as a performance enhancer for sports! Laser sharp focus with less fuel needed.

Not a good long term solution, at all. In the short term, very effective. Can confirm.


Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2023, 12:57:36 AM »
Saga has a great fatigue mechanic - units accrue fatigue tokens through combat and extra moves, and the opponent can then cancel their moves or decrease their combat effectiveness by 'playing' the fatigue tokens. It's very elegant.

Offline Muzfish4

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Re: Sometimes I Get So Tired- Fatigue in Wargames
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2023, 11:47:40 AM »

I like the sound of Blood on the Sands as it incorporates it into the heart of the game.  Simply fighting gains fatigue, wounds add more, and as fatigue builds you lose actions.  You can try and rest to regain it but that's not easy when you have the crowd wanting more action and your opponent is trying to bash you still.

Fatigue works really well in BotS. It can also be an effective way for lighter gladiators to manage the threat posed by the better-armoured heavier gladiator classes. When some campaign elements such as hot weather or braziers set up in the arena then attacks that are designed to target an opponent's fatigue are really effective and add another element to an already terrific set of rules.

More generally, was it Napoleon who said that the first virtue of a soldier, even before valour and obedience, should be endurance? He may (might be my dodgy memory though) have also said words to the effect that in battle a man can last 15 minutes until exhaustion, a division and hour and a corps a day? Of course, the Corsican Ogre did not have be benefit of 'bennies' but one might bet London to a brick he'd have freely handed them out to his soldiers prior to battle.

 

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