New Osprey Game - Flashpoint: Platoon Skirmishes in World War III

[Daeothar]

For me personally, the sweet spot lies somewhere between squad and platoon level, with some (very) limited armoured support. Perhaps one tank or a couple of APC's per side.

So the Rogue Warriors system is geared at too small a force, and the rest is too big, dang it... 

[Dice Roller]

For me personally, the sweet spot lies somewhere between squad and platoon level, with some (very) limited armoured support. Perhaps one tank or a couple of APC's per side.

Have a look at Osprey's 'Black Ops'.
Don't be put off by the cover - it's not sci fi (though can be used for near-future games).
It's pretty much at the level you are looking for. It's not perfect (which of the Blue Books is) but it's very adaptable and tweakable to bend it into what you want it to be.
A surprisingly good game.

[Daeothar]

I have that, but always thought of it as ultra-modern. Great for contemporary bouts between spec ops and drug cartels for instance. A budget alternative to Spectre Ops if you will.

It never occurred to me to use it for cold war (gone hot) instead. I'll give it another read through to see if it does what I want it to...

Cheers for the headsup

[Iain R]

I have that, but always thought of it as ultra-modern. Great for contemporary bouts between spec ops and drug cartels for instance. A budget alternative to Spectre Ops if you will.

It never occurred to me to use it for cold war (gone hot) instead. I'll give it another read through to see if it does what I want it to...

Cheers for the headsup

It can actually work, we used it for Cold War platoon level with limited armour support (Fox & Ferret for the Brits and a BMP and T-72(!) for the Soviets) and managed to get a decent enough game out of it. Bit clunky at that level since it's not really designed for that, but it is doable with a bit of patience. As you say, very much better at small section/fireteam level actions, but we had nothing else (Force on Force had defeated us...)

You could try Richard Chambers' fan made Cold War Battlegroup adaptation. Look up his blog Cold War Hot Hot Hot for the details, but it's perfect for reinforced platoon level stuff.

[carlos marighela]

I'm not sure there's a great distinction to be made between modern and 'ultra modern'. I giggle a bit about the term 'ultra modern' as that was what Bruce Rheas-Taylor was bandying about with his Challenger rule sets back in the 1980s, when the Cold War was er...'ultra modern' or rather contemporary.

Leaving aside the proliferation of personal communications devices, night vision, optics and things like drones, really not a lot has changed and all those things would be add ons in most games anyway.

Pretty much everyone operates under the principles of fire and movement. Pretty much everyone divides sections into fireteams (and many have done so since WW2) Assault rifles are assault rifles be they M16A1s or whatever HK/ Sig/ Colt iteration is currently fielded. the basic function of most infantry weapons have not changed dramatically in the past 60 years. If you add to that the fact that most armies vigorously train for the last war despite strenously denying it then you'll see that not a great deal has changed.

At this level we are talking basic Infantry Minor Tactics (IMT) ie; skills and drills and minor tactics, not Airland Battle 2000 or whatever the current buzz doctrine might be. A set of rules good for Vietnam or Germany 1984 should be good to go for 2020 with the addition of some chrome.

Off the peg, there are a number of suitable rules sets. Farce on Farce/ Ambush Valley,  Empress's Bohica, adaptations of CoC etc, etc, etc. I still have my old copy of  Charlie Company, the RAFM Vietnam rule set and they would be as serviceable for Afghanistan 2010 as Tet 1968.

Like most gamers I too seek the Holy Grail of the 'perfect' set whilst simultaneously acknowledging it probably doesn't exist and that as a whole there isn't a great deal in terms of rules mechanics that's wholly novel anyway.

For me the defining factors are training/ skill at arms and a subset of that: contact drills, the things that set you up for battle and ensure you have the quickest reaction to contact. If you want a defining watershed for at least one army then contact drills are an intersting study. Pre-Vietnam the US Army for instance did not utilise contact drills to any large extent. The initiative of the junior leader was emphasised and it was considered that every contact would be different. The latter part of that assumption is quite true but it doesn't grasp with what a contact drill is meant to do.

At base level it's a set procedure to put your troops on the ground in the most advantageous position. It's almost an instinctive action when trained for. That helps them win the initial firefight and presents the junior leader with some baseline facts, like where his men are  (my gun group will either be to my right or on the high ground) and what they will be doing, while he makes his tactical appreciation. It buys time for that and allows the commander to gain/regain the initiative at the earliest point in time. It really is the basic building block of IMT that allows initiative to be realised.

I've been tinkereing with ideas of my own on how to realise this as  part of a game mechanic. At one end you could just lump it in with training level but of course there are relatively well trained armies who didn't use contact drills like the US Army in Vietnam and relatively poorly trained armies like the PLAN and PAVN who did use very basic contact drills and used them extensively. The communist forces were excellent at gaining the initiative in contacts, largely IMO due to good drills. Of course whn they encountered the Australian Army they fared comparitively poorly, with the overwhelming number of contacts in Vietnam involving Australian troops being initiated by the Australians.*

I think a game that gives an initial reaction advantage to troops with good skills and drills is something I'd like to see. Of course the curve has flattened as most armies teach some sorts of basic contact drills these days.

Anyway that's my hobby horse and maybe one day I'll get around to writing a rule set. provsional title: 'Contact, Wait Out!'



* There are of course a variety of other factors in play. The Australian insistence on paced tactical movement, personal campuflage doctrine, better patrolling skills and most importantly the emphasis placed on the ambush as a means of contact initiation.

[Daeothar]

I'm not sure there's a great distinction to be made between modern and 'ultra modern'. I giggle a bit about the term 'ultra modern' as that was what Bruce Rheas-Taylor was bandying about with his Challenger rule sets back in the 1980s, when the Cold War was er...'ultra modern' or rather contemporary.

I've always interpreted the term as 'today's tech, plus that which is currently in development'.

But you make a fair point. I'm sure when my father and I compare notes on teams, tactics and technology (T3), we'd most likely find they're virtually indistinguishable. Me having served in the first half of the nineties and he in the early sixties, both as NCO's. Uniforms, gear, weapons and vehicles were generations apart, but the underlying structure the same.

So yeah; I absolutely agree there.

Which is as good a jumping off point to finally read through that Black Ops book as any

[CapnJim]

...Which is as good a jumping off point to finally read through that Black Ops book as any

When you do, my suggestion would be to focus on the non-stealthy stuff.  Then use the vehicle rules, and force lists in the back of the book, as guides to develop the units you want to play with.  Black Ops is one of the rule sets we use now and again...even it's non-stealthy rules are servicable... 

[zemjw]

The latest edition of Wargames Illustrated mentioned a game I hadn't heard of before - BelloLudi Kalashnikov - https://www.belloludi.nl/en-gb/winkel/BelloLudi-Kalashnikov-p702283420

Again, other than seeing its name, I know nothing about the game, but thought I'd add it to the mix

BelloLudi Kalashnikov is designed as a multiplayer game but will work just as fine with only two players or even solo. The same goes for the number of miniatures involved. It is possible to start with only around 20 miniatures, but that can easily be expanded. Similarly, the distances in BelloLudi Kalashnikov are given in inches for use with 28mm scale soldiers. Feel free to adapt to centimetres should you not have the space or when you use a smaller scale of miniatures.

This ruleset simulates battles in the period of 1975 to today, the age in which the worlds’ nations fought various conflicts. The Soviet-Afghanistan War, Iran-Iraq War, Falklands War and the Gulf Wars to name but a few. These rules can also be used for ‘what-if’ scenarios in the Cold War and the Russian-Ukrainian War.

Modern combat uses the tactic of ‘Fire and Manoeuvre’ in which the enemy is pinned in place or disorganised by the concentration of fire from the infantry and artillery. Once this is accomplished, other elements of the unit can deliver the coup de grâce. These tactics mean that teamwork and command and control (C2) are essential on the battlefield. Every unit has its own specific task and if they execute their tasks in unison, success is often achieved. The aim in this game, is not to annihilate the enemy’s units to the last man, but to inflict enough damage so that morale is reduced and the unit will become shaken or will run away in panic and might have to be removed from the tabletop. This can be achieved by a clever combination of movement, shooting and dashing charges,. The tactics are based on teamwork within a group, as well as between groups and as such, the whole army.

Your role will be that of a commander of a small group of soldiers. Should any disagreement arise concerning the rules, we suggest you roll a dice. The one who rolls the highest number is right, for now.

So onwards, to glory! and, of course: have fun! Team BelloLudi

This product contains the rule book and two commander dice

edited for yet another spelling mistake

[Daeothar]

Cheers. I might have a look at that; it sounds interesting enough... 

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Caliver had copies at Warfare.
It appears to be part of a range of rule sets.