Operation Flashpoint wargaming? Identifying Soviets

[Rochejaquelein]

When I was a teenager, my favorite computer game was Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis. It's a tactical shooter that features combined arms in an open map pitting an isolated NATO outpost against a rogue Soviet army in 1985. You could have infantry squads, tanks, APCs, helicopters and CAS aircraft all fighting at the same time ; pretty revolutionary stuff for 2001.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPYzY-t2Rg8
 Awhile back I thought to myself "why not turn it into a 28mm wargaming project?" I thought it would be pretty feasible when you consider:
*the amount of units at a given time usually consists of an American platoon vs a Soviet platoon with a couple of vehicles on each side
*levels/missions take place in open wilderness or small towns that can easily be replicated on table top

Not only that, but with Osprey coming out with their own WW3 ruleset later this year (ALSO called Flashpoint), it seems that now is a great time to get started!

 While there appears to be no US soldiers wearing kevlar helmets without scrim in 28mm, which is what the NATO forces wear in game, the older pot helmets might make more sense, as its repeatedly stated in game that the NATO base is using outdated Vietnam era equipment. NATO reinforcements with newer technology like the M1A1 only show up during the climax. The fan remake made the same conclusion and depicted NATO forces at the start of the game with pot helmets.


QED, I think Under Fire miniatures would be an excellent choice for the infantry, especially if kevlar helmet infantry without scrim are released in the future if I want to do reinforcements.

Soviet infantry are a bit trickier; I have a lot more options, with plenty of manufacturers of Soviet-Afghan war miniatures (Under Fire, Empress, Eureka), but that brings its own problems. I have no idea what kind of infantry they are supposed to be going by the camo/gear. Mechanized infantry? VDV? Backflipping tomahawk throwing Spetznatz?  The guy on the left is the original model from the 2001 game while the soldier on the right is an updated version made by the fan community.


Another picture of an even newer fan remake of the Soviet infantry.

[carlos marighela]

I have no idea what the game was attempting to portray but the camouflage suits appear to be the standard KLMK one piece coveralls. These could conceivably portray motorised infantry, VDV paratroopers or even Soviet Naval Infantry, all had access to these suits. By the mid 1980s there was the similarly patterned two-piece KZS camouflage overall, made out of a burlap like material and these were increasingly utilised by Soviet units. KGB border guards also used the KLMK material but had two piece suits made up, resembling the later Afghan style tunics and trousers.

Given that the figures are depicted carrying fixed stock AK-74 rifles as opposed to folding stock AK-74S versions it seems they are intended to be bog standard motor riflemen rather than paratroopers.

Chest webbing, the lifchik, was not a standard feature outside of the Afghan theatre, so a bit of artistic licence?

[SJWi]

Hi, the Soviet camouflage uniform you show is the KMLK coverall. Originally intended for specialists such as snipers/recce, it was far more widely adopted in the 1980s and I have pictures of Motor Rifle troops wearing it. A  new two-part version was introduced in the mid '80s apparently treated so as to reduce the soldier's IR signature. VDV troops adopted their own, different camouflage variant in the mid '80s. My source is Steven Zaloga's "Inside the Soviet Army Today" published by Osprey in 1987. By the way I read an early version of what I assume are the Osprey rules you refer to. They look quite simple and put a lot of emphasis on a campaign system .The background very much reminded me of the old "Twilight 2000" game that I played back in the day! 

[carlos marighela]

As discussed elsewhere on this board M1 pot helmets are not out of the question for 1985.

The problem with the Underfire figures is that they carry M16A2 rifles which were introduced in the latter half of the decade. Fixable with putty and a file, if that level of detail bothers you.

[SJWi]

Carlos, thanks for the additional info. I was literally typing as you posted!

[commissarmoody]

Yeah got with the M1 helmeted figs from Underfire and use the companies Soviets in one peace camo form the opposition.
I have a platoon with the skrim helmet covers and and thinking of grabbing some of the Empress Kpot heads from Empress Ultra modern modular line. Or I might snag some heads from their ultra modern USMC line because I remember they have coveres. But I can. It remember if those heads come with nods mounts.

[modelwarrior]

Use to love this game. It was one of the first games that allowed you to put your own face in the soldiers. Remember playing modified games that had all the Russian faces as gorillas

[Jemima Fawr]

Yeah, one of my favourite games (especially with the two expansion packs).  Following the loss of the rights to the 'Operation Flashpoint' brand, the makers went on to make the ARMA series.

If you ever played Flashpoint on Christmas Day, a lot of the trees turned into Christmas trees and troops were running around wearing Santa hats. 

[Rochejaquelein]

I have no idea what the game was attempting to portray but the camouflage suits appear to be the standard KLMK one piece coveralls. These could conceivably portray motorised infantry, VDV paratroopers or even Soviet Naval Infantry, all had access to these suits. By the mid 1980s there was the similarly patterned two-piece KZS camouflage overall, made out of a burlap like material and these were increasingly utilised by Soviet units. KGB border guards also used the KLMK material but had two piece suits made up, resembling the later Afghan style tunics and trousers.


Chest webbing, the lifchik, was not a standard feature outside of the Afghan theatre, so a bit of artistic licence?

After doing a little research, apparently the Soviets depicted in-game are from the 3rd Russian Army, which in real life was disbanded in 1947. Would motorized infantry still use BMPs, though? In game, the Soviets use both Ural trucks and BMP2s to transport infantry (in addition to MI-8 and Hinds)

The "Spetnatz" units in-game appear to be VDV (they wear the VDV patch and use the AK74s), so I might make a small squad of those from Empress' recently released line.

As for the lifchik, the game implies that the Soviets ingame have top of the line gear, explaining that they would have the lifchik (which apparently came out in 1985). However, given I would probably want to do Fulda Gap kind of skirmishes eventually, I think it would make more sense to not have them. The game has worse crimes against realism, like having reloadable LAW launchers or the Soviets using Czech combat boots

[carlos marighela]

The Soviets only had motorised infantry or rather motor rifle troops. All mechanised infantry whether in wheeled, BTRs, tracked BMPs or the odd divisions in the North that used MTL-B carriers were motor riflemen.

In real life Spetsnaz had no distinctive badge, at least officially. They wore standard camouflage uniforms for the most part. Quite reasonable to use the Empress VDV but if you want the Afghan look with lifchik chest webbing per the game you might be better off looking at the Eureka range instead.

[Daeothar]

Since it's referenced in this thread, and the other threads regarding it are pretty old already, I thought I'd drop this here (hopefully without derailing the entire thread to much; apologies in advance ); Osprey's upcoming Flashpoint.

I've always been interested in the period (I'm actually DM-ing a Twilight 2000 campaign right now!) and a couple of years ago I bought into the Team Yankee game, when they released rules for the Dutch. I got myself some Dutch and Russian units plus the book, dice and template, but then I got to play a demo game at Poldercon and was very much turned off almost immediately.

I wanted to like it (because of the subject matter), but it was just rows of units moving to within spitting distance of eachother and then rolling buckets of dice. Not my cuppa...

Hence I now I have a small mountain of 15mm Dutch and Russians lying around with no purpose. I haven't based them yet, and if the rules prove to be any fun, I might as well do them up for Flashpoint instead.

So; what are the basing conventions for Flashpoint? Individually or per (combat)squad?

[evil_steve]

I would suggest that you look at 7 days to the river rhine for 15mm. I'm using them for Dutch vs polish. Really innovative rules that are quick and tactical.
I'm paying attention to this thread because I'm looking forward to Flashpoint for a t2k skirmish campaign set.

[SJWi]

Daeothar, I would agree with "Evil Steve"......I just love the name!  I read an early version of what I assume are "Operation Flashpoint" .  They struck me as being very much in the same genre as Twilight 2000, but maybe with a few more figures. TW2000 was very much an RPG, Flashpoint is more a squad level skirmish game.

If you want a platoon or company level game Seven Days to the River Rhine works really well in 15mm. I have Russians, BAOR, Dutch and a small US force. As with all rules I have some gripes ( eg the same command and control systems for both Warsaw Pact and NATO which due to the points system actually seems to favour the Warsaw Pact) but these can be sorted via house rules.

Regards.         

[Daeothar]

Thanks guys

I read everywhere that Flashpoint will be a platoon level game though. If it's actually a squad level game, do you think it would be playable with 28mm minis? Almost my entire collection of terrain and miniatures is in that scale and I'd rather not have to add an entire stock of terrain again

[evil_steve]

I'm sure 28mm will do.  It's what I'll be doing. 
My plan is to do rpg-light: have a unit of Poles as the protagonists and give the players multiple choice decisions to make which will impact the battles/campaign. This gives some of the immersion of an rpg without either the bookkeeping of individual characters/equipment or the potential for players to go completely off script and ruin plots.