Asymmetric Wargame Rules Questions

[ulverston]

Hi,

Has anyone played the Asymmetric wargames rules? I am a big fan of Spectre Operations V2 so despite not having a need to update as I play solo the rules may be interesting to try.

Also are the set a printed book yet?

Thanks in advance

[Rick]

Not me, I'm afraid - just not really on my list of interests. I'm much more interested in relatively modern armoured combat, not 'semi-Vietnam' refights (or worse in some of the ludicrous rulesets I've seen).
What sort of Asymmetric Warfare wars were you interested in?

[ulverston]

Hi Rick,
I am thinking of Rhodesia mainly but also future low level clashes within Europe, maybe police actions. I game mostly solo as a lot of my little battles are not balanced and are more like run throughs where I can observe tactics and mistakes. A lot of people would find this intensely boring but due to my previous history I find it engrossing. Even to the point where I will run through a zombie scenario to see what would feasibly work. I will be the first to accept that my miniature experiments may be worthless but I enjoy them!

[Rick]

Then I can heartily recommend Force on Force and the excellent 'Bush Wars' supplement, although the Chris Peers 'At Close Quarters' is also very good (I have the rules but haven't found any army lists - I suspect doing your own would be necessary).

[Cypher226]

Hi,

Has anyone played the Asymmetric wargames rules? I am a big fan of Spectre Operations V2 so despite not having a need to update as I play solo the rules may be interesting to try.

Also are the set a printed book yet?

Thanks in advance

The rules are clarified and somewhat improved with the errata from v2 of Spectre Operations.  It's a tighter ruleset. 

The book is supposed to be getting a print on demand release, but I got my copy printed professionally (spiral bound) for not a huge amount. 

[Lord Raglan]

Then I can heartily recommend Force on Force and the excellent 'Bush Wars' supplement

Of possible interest, I found a mint copy of both books which I intend list in the marketplace soon.

[bc99]

Not me, I'm afraid - just not really on my list of interests. I'm much more interested in relatively modern armoured combat, not 'semi-Vietnam' refights (or worse in some of the ludicrous rulesets I've seen).
What sort of Asymmetric Warfare wars were you interested in?

I believe OP was speaking to the set of war game rules titled: Asymmetric Warfare.

To OP: I’ve got the rules they are very similar to their precursor, Spectre V. 2. I like the open and easy to house rule style of the rules. Some stuff is still wonky like grenade throwing etc but all together it’s a great game. I believe the rules are available as a PDF and they may have an updated version freely updated for download. I’ll have to check.

[Rick]

Well colour me embarrassed - I'd never heard of it. I had vaguely heard of Spectre Operations and dismissed it but when 'Asymmetric Wargame' or 'Warfare' is mentioned, a specific set of rules doesn't spring to mind; it's a general term for something, not a specific one.

[ulverston]

ThanksGuys, I have V2 of Spectre Operations and love it. I used to have a copy of Force on Force and the Bush wars supplement.... sadly sold for the next shiny ruleset probably. I did read that a new version was due to be published but that was many years ago. I believe that copies of Force on Force and the supplements are very expensive now. I am not surprised as the rules are very interesting.

On a side note are any Rhodesian vehicles available as STL's for home printing?

Thanks for the responses Chaps

[Freddy]

Ever tried Hind&Seek? It is about the Soviet-Afghan war and has some really cool rules for handling ambushes. I guess it is easy to adapt to other theatres, needs maybe a little tinkering with the stratagems.

[ulverston]

I will look that one up Freddy. Some books arrived yesterday in preparation for my holiday which included Rhodesian Fire Force from the Africa at war series...cant wait to read that one!

[carlos marighela]

Whilst I acknowledge that the original question is aimed at a particular rule set, the notion that 'asymetrical warfare' is somehow different at a tactical level is misleading. Yes, there may be specific considerations at a higher level, eg there maybe requirements to provide civic action/ nation building etc but at the sort of level most folk will wargame, it's pretty much basic, 101, infantry minor tactics. As such any decent set of rules that deals with IMT should suffice. In the real world, patrolling techniques, contact drills and the like are largely unaffected by the nature of the enemy. An unfriendly group of chaps with rifles are pretty much like any other.

The sorts of things that may require some chrome or scenario modification, would be things like ROEs as well as what advantages, if any, are conferred on the insurgent force being on home turf. The only other thing I'd really give any thought to would be the incidence of mines and/or IEDs as they tend to more of a feature in insurgent warfare due to force disparity. That's really just a matter of scenario design as most rules will have some mechanism for mines/IEDs.

[Freddy]

Whilst I acknowledge that the original question is aimed at a particular rule set, the notion that 'asymetrical warfare' is somehow different at a tactical level is misleading. Yes, there may be specific considerations at a higher level, eg there maybe requirements to provide civic action/ nation building etc but at the sort of level most folk will wargame, it's pretty much basic, 101, infantry minor tactics. As such any decent set of rules that deals with IMT should suffice. In the real world, patrolling techniques, contact drills and the like are largely unaffected by the nature of the enemy. An unfriendly group of chaps with rifles are pretty much like any other.

The sorts of things that may require some chrome or scenario modification, would be things like ROEs as well as what advantages, if any, are conferred on the insurgent force being on home turf. The only other thing I'd really give any thought to would be the incidence of mines and/or IEDs as they tend to more of a feature in insurgent warfare due to force disparity. That's really just a matter of scenario design as most rules will have some mechanism for mines/IEDs.

Problem with the traditional wargame approach is that you will have Ahmed with a rusty AK-47 wearing slippers and Jimmy armed to the teeth, with an Abrams tank in one pocket, a GPS guided bomb in the other. If you try to balance it, you will end up with Rorkes Drift, which might feel pretty heroic for Jimmy, but not too realistic regarding the day-to-day history of these conflicts.
The genius of Hind&Seek is that
1.) you build the army with Assets which can be either units or other helping factors, so a badly equipped guerilla force does not necessarily have to be numerous
2.) the ambush system is well thought out, in many cases Afghan units are not on the table in any form while they still can shoot whoever they want- when the Soviets successfully dicover them, only then has the Afghan player place them anywhere near the unit they shot last. This models the Soviet struggle really well: the enemy is badly equipped, you have superior firepower, but you do not know where to shoot because you do not know where the enemy is, those units who actually could discover them are pinned by their fire from out of nowhere. If you spot them in time, they are dead, but are you able to before you suffer unacceptable casualties?

[ulverston]

I would add as an ex infantryman the tasks required when facing different types of situations (not just fighting) differ massively. Training, logistics and tactics vary massively and I help express this on the tabletop by running a campaign which helps decide each scenario. I am pretty sure if my games where taken out of context people would get bored and confused pretty quickly. The trick is finding a suitably scaled game that works on the tabletop to help work out situations or contacts. So far the best one for me has been Spectre Operations version 2 though I would be very interested in Force on Force if they published a new version. The first edition was superbly presented but as a solo player I used to get confused with the endless reactions....
As a note I have found the Elheim sculptor on myminifactory and the temptation to buy a printer is almost overwhelming