Wealthy attendant with Warwick "Kingmaker" (update on page 2)

[Legiox217]

I was in the mood to see how the gang was coming together, and figured I'd snap a few pics before I get distracted with another project - need to add foliage to bases and try to freehand the badges, and probably a few more touches to the horse who I've grown tired of now that I have to actually do the hard part, so here's a peak before I ruin them  by my estimation there are about 24-25 badges on the horse displayed on their website ...guess what's NOT happening we shall see

Its a neat pack. I'll tidy up the thread when I iron out the kinks, but I still don't know who this colorful guy is! He was a joy to paint though. We will have to give him a name at some point...

[Rick]

No idea who the wealthy looking 4th man is but 4 figures is more than most characters get, isn't it? Somebody really likes ol' Warwick.
I have a pile of Perry plastics still to sort out for a (future) WotR project so I was looking for small transfers to go on figures as a lord's badge but nobody seems to do them, even VVV. And yeah, unless you can get some ragged staff decals, don't do the horse barding like that - I'd be tempted to paint it like one of the flags, in all honesty.
As to flags, many retinues didn't fight near to their lords so it was important for his men to be able to pick out his unique heraldry at a distance on the battlefield, similarly for him to see where his retinue was at any time. So anything to help him be seen clearly on the battlefield would have been important.

[Rick]

Of course, then I found this painting of Warwick:

[Legiox217]

Of course, then I found this painting of Warwick:

Could it really be him??? I actually just saw a great photograph of a re-enactor from the period in a WotR book, wearing very similar attire! Love the hanging sleeves...I never knew how stylish the English were at the time

Perhaps Wellington Bonaparte and Atelier Robin were correct earlier in the thread?
Thanks for the image, they sure do love him...I can't wait to formulate my own opinion as to why when I am done learning what I can about him

No idea who the wealthy looking 4th man is but 4 figures is more than most characters get, isn't it? Somebody really likes ol' Warwick.
I have a pile of Perry plastics still to sort out for a (future) WotR project so I was looking for small transfers to go on figures as a lord's badge but nobody seems to do them, even VVV. And yeah, unless you can get some ragged staff decals, don't do the horse barding like that - I'd be tempted to paint it like one of the flags, in all honesty.
As to flags, many retinues didn't fight near to their lords so it was important for his men to be able to pick out his unique heraldry at a distance on the battlefield, similarly for him to see where his retinue was at any time. So anything to help him be seen clearly on the battlefield would have been important.

Good call on the horse barding. I must have been subconsciously waiting for someone to offer an alternative suggestion, because I feel a second wind coming...hehe. Perhaps a rendition of the smaller square livery badge for the horse barding.
 I did order all the flags I need from Pete on ebay, so I am going to try "making" my own instead of using the ones Flagdude had built for me. I've got a boatload of Front Rank open handed figs ready to take flagpoles...

As for decals, I was in the same boat, and did a fair bit of hunting and a bit less experimenting, but there are indeed quite a few that I found that could prove useful, as I started this hunt over on a different thread.
 Here is an example of a White Rose I somewhat successfully applied (the imperfections are user error), and I have a few other viable candidates tucked in the drawer. Nothing crazy but I think I will find a use for a handful of them on things like trumpet banners. I wasn't able to get a precise ragged staff 1:1, however. For boars, lions, roses, etc I am covered. I have some free time coming up so would like to have another go at completing this, but my buddy is urging me to build my WW2 force so I must manage my time properly...the throwing of the dice may take precedence, as that is what he plays currently.
Cheers


 

[Rick]

Hey - we're stylish. I even wore something similar myself when I met Richard III - Liripipe hat, similar tunic with pretty much the same sleeves, in a very fetching royal blue and bottle green! I'm not sure if it is exactly him in the painting/illustration - the problem is that, unlike kings, most nobles just didn't get portraits done so we have to rely on several different (and often contradictory) descriptions or caricatures of the man. It could certainly be a good guess! 

[Legiox217]

Hey - we're stylish. I even wore something similar myself when I met Richard III - Liripipe hat, similar tunic with pretty much the same sleeves, in a very fetching royal blue and bottle green!

Right on mate! That must be a joy to collect and partake in. I was getting genuinely giddy gazing at the beautiful scenes portrayed in the few photographic reference books of re-enactors that were recommended by the folks on LAF/TMP. Very wholesome and fascinating stuff - Perhaps the figure is of your likeness??!! You haven't stood still near any sculptors in the past couple decades for too long a time, have you? 

"The Medieval Soldier" Gerry Embleton and John Howe
"Medieval Military Costume in Colour Photographs" Gerry Embleton

I know you've all got them, but just in case someone like a "past-me" shows up one day. Rick - You wouldn't happen to have made an appearance in either of these, would you?

So the figure is either the Kingmaker on holiday, or Rick - we have certainly narrowed it down!

[Rick]

It's not me, sadly! 
I was all of about 14 or 15 at the time; a medieval banquet in the great hall of Gainsborough Old Hall with a Richard III, some 'courtiers' (a group from the Richard the third society) and the 'Burgh family'. Of course I was sat above the salt, on the same table as the King. 

[anevilgiraffe]

Of course, then I found this painting of Warwick:

that does not look like art of the period, more like something from a kids history book

[Rick]

that does not look like art of the period, more like something from a kids history book

No it isn't a period painting, but at least it isn't an image of an actor from a tv series either! I also don't think it's an illustration from a book, I think it's just a relatively contemporary interpretation - much like the miniatures are contemporary interpretations of how he might've looked.

[anevilgiraffe]

No it isn't a period painting, but at least it isn't an image of an actor from a tv series either! I also don't think it's an illustration from a book, I think it's just a relatively contemporary interpretation - much like the miniatures are contemporary interpretations of how he might've looked.

The watermark is Look and Learn, which was a magazine series - found it on their website: https://www.lookandlearn.com/history-images/A010033/Richard-Neville-Earl-of-Warwick?t=1&q=warwick&n=45

Noted as: Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick. Original artwork from Look and Learn no. 245 (24 September 1966).

So, I'd say the miniatures are probably better researched as for historical likenesses.

[Rick]

The watermark is Look and Learn, which was a magazine series - found it on their website: https://www.lookandlearn.com/history-images/A010033/Richard-Neville-Earl-of-Warwick?t=1&q=warwick&n=45

Noted as: Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick. Original artwork from Look and Learn no. 245 (24 September 1966).

So, I'd say the miniatures are probably better researched as for historical likenesses.

Why? Just because it was acquired for use in a British childrens magazine does not mean that the original creator didn't research the subject. Some of those magazines from the 60's and 70's were extremely well researched and produced, being used for education more than entertainment. Don't judge the magazines from then by the same standards as the more modern examples.

[Rick]

The problem is that this is an unproveable point - neither one of us can hold this up next to a proven likeness of Warwick and say that it is/is not a good likeness - there simply aren't any good paintings of him around, merely a few caricatures and, other, modern interpretations. It's 'a' likeness and, in the absence of anything else, I'll call it as a fairly good likeness and not give a damn, you can't prove it isn't! 

[Stuart H]

Coming to this discussion quite late.

Whilst there are no confirmed contemporary images of Richard Neville, there are a number of near contemporary images, though how accurate thye are is open to debate.  The two I have to hand are on my website, on the post I did for my own figures of Neville and retinue. https://28mmtowton.blogspot.com/2019/07/the-nevilles.html





Both are pretty stylized though.

For further discussion on a number of contemporary/near contemporary images of Neville and the question as to whether such imagines are stylized or an attempt to capture the individual see - https://suwritesstuff.blogspot.com/2013/03/keeping-up-appearances.html

I do think contemporary records say he had dark hair and darker complexion but I can't find those references at present so treat with caution. Hick's Warwick the Kingmaker may be a good starting point.

Either way, I think your painting of the figures is great and I wouldn't stress about who the individual model is supposed to be.