Ancient & Medieval Dyes

[Blackwolf]

This is a slight digression; Scuta were actually (if we believe the current thinking) more difficult to remove if they did not BEND,think about it.......

  As for colours,arrrrgh! I think regional influences were important and sometimes I think we could be all completely and utterly wrong,did anyone mention chi-ros on shields? Arrrgh again.My own view (ie not historical) is that both Doc and former user are right.
  Anyway I'm only interested in the Sarmartians......who taught everyone about cavalry (sorry,not entirely true).

[former user]

I would agree upon the uniformity of shield shapes and designs, for units level.
curved scuta (rectangular and oval), flat rectangular, hexagonal and oval shields however speak a different language.
The gladius in the early empire was certainly a standardized weapon.
The highest functional uniformity is evidenced for the infantry helmet.

but functional uniformity is firstly natural for an army with increasing diversity and grade of "combined arms" tactics.

Uniformity in modern terms however, would be something very different.
roman wargaming miniatures are made very standardized,
rectangular scutum, metal stripe armour, imperial gallic helmet and that's it.
similar for auxiliaries. This is a modern concept of uniformity that I would reject straightout for anything before 1700

but we are indeed diverting here

whatever the reason for the shields to look brighter/newer, be it repair or frequent replacement (one shield per battle is of course only the case for units actually involved in CC, which was rarely the case), this appears to be a fact - the wargamer seems to be good advised to let them look newer.

If we really want to have a productive discussion about warfare before black powder, we should do it maybe in another thread

[Major Weenie]

All this talk of shields has put me in mind of something,

Forgive me if I don't remember all the exact names.

So Hannibal is marching up and down the Italian peninsula.  The Romans are avoiding pitched battles with him, but want to wear down the Carthaginian army as a whole.  Hannibal's brother (Hasdrubal ?) is maneuvering a smaller army about to accomplish 'something' whilst the Romans are maneuvering to trap him.  Everyone is very experienced and professional, and many stratagems are employed against their opponents.  (lighting many campfires to conceal that the troops have marched off, etc.)

The Carthaginians are deceived into pouncing on what they think is a much smaller force, but they realize that they have been out maneuvered by the Romans when they recognize large numbers of 'Dirty Shields' in the Roman army.   This somehow is taken as conclusive proof that the Romans have huge reinforcements arriving after a forced march.  The Carthaginians change their battle plan to a purely defensive one, but lose, and are exterminated, anyway.

Dirty Shields.  Who knew?

[former user]

oh well

we are getting deeper into source criticism....
would You mind quoting the source please, so that I can read it myself?

right now I can't make much of it in terms of explanation

question is: what kind of shields were in use in the roman army at that time, did they use shield covers on the march

[Ramshackle_Curtis]

Onion does bright yellow.

Pale colours are common. Cheaper to dye, plus fixing the dye is hard so the colours fade quickly.


Red is not cheap.
Blue is expensive.
Black is the most costly.

SO, rank and file should be in almost pastile, although bright yellow is cheap and good browns.

Characters in rich deep hues.

Lords in black/blue/purle.