1st corps Slave Revolt scale?

[Prof.Witchheimer]

I've purchased some republican Romans (Caesar + Command unit) from 1st corps while ago and was surprised about how small they are. Are their Slave revolt miniatures of similar scale or slightly (hopefully!) bigger? Any pics by chance?

[aecurtis]

Same size, Alex.  Trailape has a few pics on his site:  http://trailape.blogspot.com/2010/11/aincients-army-painter-way.html

Allen

[Prof.Witchheimer]

Same size, Alex. 

That's what I was afraid of

[Silent bob]

I was a little dissapointed in the 1st Corps Slave revolt figures when I got some 

[aecurtis]

1st Corps' ancients (and other) ranges have the virtue of being in a consistent size and style, as most of them were sculpted by Rob Baker when he first established the company.  The additions made by the subsequent owners--first Phil Stirpe, and now Michael and Simon Curtis (no relation!), who also have Curteys Miniatures--have stayed consistent with the original style.  So you can field a good many different armies from their ranges and not have to worry about what will "fit".

And even as the Curtises have added to and replaced older packs, they have stayed consistent.  If you look at the photo on Jeff's Jonas' website's front page ( http://ancientbattles.com/ ), you can see a Ptolemaic Successor phalanx in green tunics in the foreground.  It comprises both older, OOP 1st Corps figures and the new, current figures which replace them.  On the site, Jeff also has a multi-part article which we wrote to describe how I painted this unit for him.

However, as other companies have gone to "large 28s", about the only top-quality (IMO) range that is still compatible with 1st Corps' ancients is the Perry-sculpted EIR range from Foundry.  Foundry's World of the Greeks (and Caesarians, Thracians, etc.), the defunct Companion line, GB's Polemarch Successors, Musketeer, Aventine, and such are noticeably larger.  You can use entire units alongside: I use 1st Corps' Successor cavalry alongside WotG/Polemarch phalanxes.  Again; look at Jeff's front page photo: the 1st Corps Ptolemaic phalanx is facing off against a Polemarch phalanx and Aventine elephants, with an Old Glory Macedonian phalanx in the background!  But mixing individual figures is less likely to please the eye.

Rob Baker's sculpts typically have *very* open, flat hands, and it can be a chore to get weapons to attach realistically (especially because the metal is nice and hard!).  With the newer additions, figures have closed hands that can be drilled out.  Sometimes, the active poses are a little wonky.  But en masses, units can look very good.  For the most part, these are designed as gamers' figures, not for painters to create individual masterpieces.

Hope that helps.

Allen

[Prof.Witchheimer]

Thank you Allen, it's very helpful! I love Jeff's page and the pic on the front page, never would have thought the figures there are 1st corps. Great article on them, too, well done!

I've bought some Romans a while ago. Their Romans are lovely figures but the difference to Foundry is just too much. Just like you say, mixing doesn't work:



I would love to paint them one day just for a little diorama or anything. Otherwise I can think of making a troup of them and playing against older other 1st corps stuff.

Shall I one day go down the way of playing the Successors, so I could imagine to deploy one or two unit, they're just too lovely.

[aecurtis]

Thanks, Alex!  Jeff did a great job finishing up my paint jobs: his shield transfers, basing, and pikes really pulled them together.  If I were to do it over again, I think I would not try to paint on the grave straps; my shaky hands just aren't up to it!  On mine, I've left the legs bare.   

Jeff is noted for incorporating figures from multiple manufacturers (and over time as well, with some figs going back to the '70s?), without worrying too much about size differences.  Taken all together, his units and armies look great on the tabletop.  That's a lesson I'm still learning, both in 15mm and 28mm.  I still get surprised with how well differently-sized figures can blend together, even within a unit.  A great example is the wonderful Dave Imrie's (Saxon Dog) use of "small" Foundry Late Romans on the same large element bases as their "large" Black Tree Design counterparts.  Unfortunately, most of his old images from the League of Augsburg site and  his earlier personal sites are gone, barring the  odd one that can be found on The Wayback Machine.  But I've cheerfully swiped most of them over the years, saving them to hard drives, and I regularly look at them when I need to remind myself not to stress so much over size. 

The trick in that particular case was that the Perry's heads and helmets on the smaller Foundry figures were a bit oversize, so could stand alongside the larger, but perhaps better-proportioned BTD figures, sculpted by Richard Ansell.  Having no heads or helmets that stood out as either to large or small, having individual "men" of different heights looked normal--just as in the real world.  So we can use these tricks to our advantage.

For example, your 1st Corps mounted consul, or general, may well look fine on a command stand of his own, perhaps with a lictor or two, next to a unit of the Foundry legionaries sculpted by Mark Copplestone.  Mark sculpted big ol' helmets!  But a general and his staff--the general having removed his, and the lictors having none--will be compared by the viewer's eye more favorably than, say, the cavalry trooper or the tribune on foot.  One the other hand, the 1st Corps general would look odd next to Old Glory's Julius Caesar figure (shown on trailape's blog, as cited above), because the horses are quite different, and the Old Glory version has a very extended neck! (The Old Glory set is really very nice; you just have to be careful as to what's around it.  I use it for the "high command" of my Foundry Caesarians.)

Just as the best painters tend to lead the viewer's eye to what the painter wishes them to see--an art which folks like yourself have mastered far, far more than I have, or ever will do--careful selection of figures can do the same.  As I say, I have to re-learn this lesson about every other week...

Allen

[Prof.Witchheimer]

The trick in that particular case was that the Perry's heads and helmets on the smaller Foundry figures were a bit oversize, so could stand alongside the larger, but perhaps better-proportioned BTD figures, sculpted by Richard Ansell.  Having no heads or helmets that stood out as either to large or small, having individual "men" of different heights looked normal--just as in the real world.  So we can use these tricks to our advantage.

That's a good point, Allen, indeed, having comparable head sizes can really work while pulling different styles and scales. There are also still lots of tricks like building a higher base or just leaving the guys look smaller just for the sake of reality.

On the other side, I'm always a bit of sad seeing the old ranges disappearing and thinking of the days I've seen them first time and my former exciting about them. For this reason  I'm thinking of building a troup of older smaller figures like Foundry Perry, at elast for my coming (one day, no date yet) Late Romans project.

[aecurtis]

If Foundry Late Romans are on the docket, let me dig up something...



This is one of David Imrie's older examples of combining Black Tree Design Late Romans (first two ranks) and Foundry (third rank).  This is the legion Primani Iuniores.  Again, I stole/salvaged this from The Wayback Machine; I don't think it's accessible any more. 

Allen

[aecurtis]

However, you can get to an older gallery page on the archived League of Augsberg site, on which Mr. Imrie talks about the Late Romans and how he approached them.  Some pics are missing, but as you can see, these were all Foundry.  http://web.archive.org/web/20020212175810/http://www.davidimrie.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/lateromans.htm

Allen