Battlereport Dutch revolt / 80 years war

[MM]

Another Dutchie here....very impressive battle indeed!

And a great inspiration for my own plans for an eighty years war Dutch army. I want to start painting again after a long while of almost painting nothing...and seeing the beauty of a table full of troops in this period will surely help.

I'm going to use TAG figures by the way, a mix of their German, Swedish and English figures are quite a good fit for the periode 1590-1640 or thereabouts. And I believe there are future plans for expansion to suit the earlier phases of the eighty years war.

@ Deothar: for a smaller skirmish game in the period, next year the ruleset The Pikeman's Lament will be published. Based on the very popular Lion/Dragon Rampant rules. There's some information to be found on this forum, battlereports and whatnot.

[ErikG]

Thank you for all the kind remarks, I've never had this many replies to any of my battles before, thats great!

I understand where you are comming from with Breda, these armies would fit that period and they were fascinating sieges/battles. There were many more sieges then pitched battles during this war so I want to do that in future times. Usually we play pitched battles and not true "acurate historical battles", I wouldn't mind but terrain making is not really my thing, I like to buy that and put it on the table.

I was born in Haarlem (we lived in Heemstede that is next to Haarlem, but the hospital was in Haarlem so thats what is says where I was born) and the Siege of Haarlem has always fascinated me (It didn't end that well for the inhabitants though.... but they did buy the needed time to flood the lands and for Alkmaar to succeed. That has always felt "close to home"  But again that is early war and I might do that in the future, I did see some fiigures from TAG but I had the feeling that the range wasn't complete enough to portray both Dutch and Spanish to my liking (some new ones might be comming, I'll keep my eyes open, although I'm planning on some other periods for now, so many great armies and so little time........

I Feel that Pike & Shotte works well for large battles where you have a lot to move and manouver, personally I do not think it has enough "depth" for skirmish size games (but I am not that much into Skirmish sized games, I want to move a lot and kill a lot ) Therefore I am not that familiar with skirmish rules, also we have played many ancient battles and several Napoleonic and civil war but never this period before.

Scale is always an item, in truth I think 10mm or 15mm are much more "realistic" then the 28mm that I play, I just love the sight of 28mm and I love paintig it. I've tried my hands on 15mm with FOW, lovely but I just notice that I do not enjoy the painting that much.

[Daeothar]

@ MM; thanks for the heads up; I'll keep my eyes out for that title.

@ ErikG: I think just about every older city in the country has had similar experiences (bar, perhaps those in the 'far' North). I went to uni in Leiden, and there too, they still have traditions based on the lifting of the Spanish siege of that city.

I don't think there was a city in the Netherlands that was besieged and changed hands as many times as Breda did though (5 times); from the beginning of the conflict, up till the very end, so gaming of every period in the conflict can have its own siege of Breda.

From what I gleaned from my short encounter with Pike and Shotte, I already suspected that the rules set would not be suited to my initial wants. It is sort of reminiscent of WHFB, but also not. I did get the idea that it was more a game of maneuvering than of combat, and the nature of the demo game we played meant that both sides were already positioned exactly where they should be to immediately start fighting (just one or two moves away from each other). Am I right in assuming that the larger the engagement, the better the system becomes?

Your preference for 28mm is duly noted; I'm in the same camp, but that's mostly because that's the scale I started out with (like, I presume, the majority of wargamers). Still; I did paint up a small force for Dropship Commander, which is 10mm, and I really loved that experience, so I might be open to smaller scales after all.

I think I might go for a skirmish game in 28mm first, before taking the plunge into full-out pitched battles though. The Pikeman's Lament might therefore be exactly what I'm after...

[ErikG]

That is my opinion, I believe Pike & Shotte is great for manouvering and the larger the armies, the better the battles. What I think is great about this set is that you can really manouver well, a unit that starts on one flank can really make a difference in the centre or even on the other flank. During battles, I love manouvering the most and I have never played a set that does this that well on a larger scale. Before we played this we played ancients only (I did not have any other armies yet) and we always played WAB, a nice game, also worked well on a larger scale but mannouvering was less and it was more time consuming, it was difficult to finish a battle in a single day (on this scale). Since we switched we can finish a battle and it has a clear end and that is very rewarding.

If you do start nearby the enemy and have a "smaller"force / skirmish level than I would not play this, I do not believe the battles themselves are as interesting then, I do not know the Pikeman's Lament but I'm sure it would suit your needs better.

I sort of have the same problem with WWII, we've tried Bolt Action but thats more skirmish then large, that set didn't wok well for us. We are still searching for a solution to make that period a bit more interesting (suggestions are welcome)

[Pijlie]

What an absolutely stunning display and battlereport! And what a great game and a great and waaaaay to rarely played period.

I have only two gripes and one question. First: why didný I know about this?  Second, why wasn't I invited  and third, when is the replay? 

Please post this on the DMW Facebook page as well! You'll blow them away!

[Pijlie]

And I would be very grateful for the OOB and scenario.

[ErikG]

Hello Pijlie,

I probably sound like a dinosaur but.... what is the DMW facebook page?  and I will have too find someone with facebook 

I'll see if I can let you know when a replay is, where are you from (it's a big country  ) We play in Hoorn NH

[Pijlie]

I live around Utrecht and usually at the club play there or at my home, but I get around and have been know to drive as far as Zutphen or (gasp!) Uden  for a game 

The Dutch Miniature Wargames Page is Dutch General Wargames Central as far as Facebook is concerned. With 629 members spread across the country and just about any period and ruleset it tends to attract some attention. I am afraid I have already shared this thread there because of my enthusiasm about it.  Coincidentally we had Abe over at the club for an 80YW game a few weeks ago. I would really have loved to have you guys at PolderCon (assuming you do participation demos that is). But maybe next time around?

And don't assume dinosaurhood too quickly! You are significantly younger than I am, son 

[ErikG]

 O yes, I remember Abe told us about it, so that was there... He had to walk home after that, his bicycle was stolen  

We have never done a participation demo or anything like that before but I think most of us would be up for it.

I'll see if I can get acces to Facebook to check it out  I had no idea there were that many historical wargamers in our little country....

[henerius]

Nice report ErikG. I agree with Pijlie, next time invite some more people. It looks like a show worthwhile to watch. 

[ErikG]

We have limited space available, there were 10 people this time (usually 6 to and it can become a bit cramped in a small room.

But we might do that if people are interested.....