Idea for a Cleric

[Soss]

We have been really liking the Captain rules and it got me thinking of creating another character that would be similar. So I thought of a Cleric. So this is a brainstorming thread for some ideas to make it work, I do think it would be very similar to a Captain.

So instead of Tricks of the Trade the Cleric would gain access to all the spells from the Thaumaturge school. So he could cast spells like a wizard. He could start with one spell and as he gains a level he can choose to learn another one. I was thinking the experience gain and level would be similar to the Captain, so Level 10. Instead of gaining XP for killing stuff he would gain XP for casting spells.

When he gains a level he could learn a new spell or lower the casting level. I think having the ability to raise his abilities like a Captain would be there also.

Starting out the Cleric would start with similar stats to a Captain but no Shoot or way to raise his shoot. I think he would start with a Staff and gain use all other weapons but a dagger and ranged ones. He starts with no Armour but could buy up to Mail and a shield. I think the starting cost should be the same but the cost for weapons and Armour maybe be 5 gold higher.

I think the ability to activate with other soldiers should not be available to the Cleric like the Captain. I do think that the 10% rule for gold found should apply, money for the church.

So with the question would be balance. Would it be to much to have a soldier that could have Armour like a Knight that can heal himself? He wouldn't be able to in combat which is nice but he could just stay behind your wizard healing him. But he would take up a slot and takes 10% of your gold. What about having the ability to cast Restore Life? It is such a high casting cost and with only 10 levels the max it could get to would be 10, so may not be the best.

Well tell me what you think. I would love to make up some house rules for this guy.

[WillieB]

Really like your idea!
Perhaps go the old D&D route and have him at a +1 Fight against undead?

[JohnDSD2]

Not sure about this one.

I think what you are describing is something more akin to a healer than a cleric, which is effectively the classic D&D role. This always came apart for me whenever you needed to portray a priest or devotee of a religion that was not, basically good.
If I have a Summoner perhaps they worship a particular demon, why would an associated 'Cleric' have access to Thaumaturge spells? Surely the rituals of a Summoner Cleric would assist with summoning and a Witch Cleric would benefit Witchiness?

I have no problem with there being a 'Healer' soldier class, somewhere between Apothecary and Apprentice or a 'Priest' soldier who could possibly have some influence on the troops (assuming the warband has some sort of holy/unholy theme) and/or being able to help with empowerment in some way by undertaking a ritual to help with spell casting.

I suppose this might lead into a bigger question, where is magical power derived from, the Gods, a priest could help? A general universal 'mana', a priest perhaps not much help. That's another topic perhaps.

Sorry, I don't think I have really helped but would be interested to see how you develop the idea.

[Philhelm]

I think what you are describing is something more akin to a healer than a cleric, which is effectively the classic D&D role. This always came apart for me whenever you needed to portray a priest or devotee of a religion that was not, basically good.

Originally, the D&D cleric was not really designed to be a healer, and was created in part to be an undead hunter, which is why "turn undead" has always been a signature ability.  I've read a couple of articles in which the game designers stated that the cleric class was created in response to another player's vampire character, Sir Fang.  Sir Fang became much too powerful during their campaign and, being huge fans of Hammer Horror movies and Peter Cushing's portrayal of Van Helsing, the cleric was created.  Of course, they also used other sources of inspiration, which resulted in the cleric's restriction to blunt weapons and their spell list, but it all started from Peter Cushing keeping a vampire at bay with a cross.

[Darkson71]

I like the idea of an "anti-undead" soldier, perhaps with access to a "turn undead" type spell and a weapon that always counts as magic but only against undead. Perhaps having on in the warband prevents the wizard from casting "raise zombie".

I'm wary of having to many " semi-characters" in warbands though. With a (normal) limit of 10 models, and already having wizards, apprentices and captains I'd rather see more soldier types.

[Philhelm]

This is a subject near and dear to my heart, since I love clerics. 

Having said that, I don't think that modifying a captain is the right way to go about it when we already have proper wizards.  My cleric is simply a thaumaturge with a blunt weapon and a discerning spell selection.  It would be nice if he could wear armor (and I even started a thread on this), but it isn't the end of the world.

Clerics have a large selection of spells, so restricting spell selection to the school of thaumaturgy would be a disservice.  Off the top of my head, the following spells could be used for a themed cleric (forgive me if I forget the exact names of some of the spells):

Heal (Cure Light/Medium/Serious Wounds)
Restore Life (Resurrection)
Shield (Protection from Evil, Defensive Harmony, etc.)
Dispel (Dispel)
Elemental Bolt (Searing Light, Flamestrike, etc.)
Enchant Weapon
Enchant Armor
Embed Enchantment (magical weapon and armor crafting)
Strength (Bull's Strength, Draw Upon Holy Might)
Combat Awareness (Champion's Strength(?), Righteous Magic)
Brew Potion
Write Scroll
Control Undead (Turn/Rebuke Undead)

And that's just scratching the surface.  I'd have to reference the rulebook to come up with a more definitive list.

[Soss]

I guess the concept I was thinking of was more along the lines of a warrior priest. I imagine I would try to create a Knight type load out that could heal other members as they moved up and then not be a slouch in combat himself.

I do like the idea of some bonuses versus undead. The spell list would give him some advantages versus Demons already. Maybe a +1 fight versus undead.

As far as why a Summoner or a Necromancer would work with a Cleric is another story. Would have think on that one. Maybe an Evil version. Don't want to complicate it to much.

[ImperialMagnus]

I guess the concept I was thinking of was more along the lines of a warrior priest. I imagine I would try to create a Knight type load out that could heal other members as they moved up and then not be a slouch in combat himself.

I do like the idea of some bonuses versus undead. The spell list would give him some advantages versus Demons already. Maybe a +1 fight versus undead.

As far as why a Summoner or a Necromancer would work with a Cleric is another story. Would have think on that one. Maybe an Evil version. Don't want to complicate it to much.

Thinking of a Paladin perhaps?

[Timeshadow]

I would say keep it simple make a category of advanced soldier for some better soldiers that get no xp just like regular ones that cost 200GC to hire but have a base upgrade prerequisite like the crow master.

Example: Cleric Prerequisite: Church Base Cost 200GC
A cleric has all the ablitys of an apothicary and counts as one for all purposes. A cleric counts as having a +1 Fight magic weapon when fighting undead.
Move 6 Fight +3 Shoot 0 Armor: 12 Will: +4 Health 12 Equipment: Leather armor, Shield, Hand weapon

Another Example: Deep woods Hunter: Prerequisite Kennel Cost 200GC
Deep woods hunter can ignore one piece of terrain giving a penalty to shoot (cannot ignore 100% blocking terrain), If a warhound from the same band is within 3" it can group activate with Deep woods hunter.
Move 7 Fight +2 Shoot +3 Armor 11 Will +2 Health 14

[Philhelm]

I guess the concept I was thinking of was more along the lines of a warrior priest. I imagine I would try to create a Knight type load out that could heal other members as they moved up and then not be a slouch in combat himself.

The cleric essentially is a warrior priest, and can do just that.  At least in 2nd edition D&D, the cleric can use any armor, but is restricted to blunt weapons; his HP and THAC0 (to-hit ability) are second only to the warrior classes; his spells aren't as powerful as the wizard's spells, but they have utility and he can cast many per day at higher levels.  His biggest downside is that he is limited to 1 attack per round, unlike warriors that can get 3 or more attacks per round.  3rd edition D&D changed that, and clerics could get up to 3 attacks vs. the warrior's 4.  With the right spells, a cleric could outfight a bona fide fighter.

The thing about the cleric is that he is much more than just a healer, but mainstream thought and clerics/priests from other game systems (derivatives of the D&D cleric) have wrongly relegated him to that role.  Some of the older cleric spells included raising skeletons, summoning "angels," inflicting damage with a touch, magically holding/stunning opponents, etc.  Most of their spells tend toward defense and healing, but they still had a lot of trick up their sleeves, even if they lacked the raw power of a mage.

This is why I think that the school of thaumaturgy would be too restrictive, since there are many spells from the other schools that could be justified being used by a "cleric."

As far as why a Summoner or a Necromancer would work with a Cleric is another story. Would have think on that one. Maybe an Evil version. Don't want to complicate it to much.

Evil clerics can traditionally control undead, rather than turning/destroying them (not to mention creating them, as already stated), and I think at higher levels they could summon fallen "angels."  In later editions, instead of using a memorized spell as a spontaneous healing spell, evil clerics could spontaneously cast harm instead.

[hummus]

why not just a school of magic for clerics?
I know clerics get there power from faith as opposed to spells but this might be an easy answer

[Soss]

why not just a school of magic for clerics?
I know clerics get there power from faith as opposed to spells but this might be an easy answer

I was just trying to use the existing rules. To make it more accurate I think you would have to make your own school.

The idea of just buying a soldier cleric that can't level is an option. In that case what would a good cost be. So let's say I make a priest that is the same stats as an apothecary without the healing potion but has the heal spell. Or a Knight that can cast the heal spell. What would be a fair purchase price for them?

[Timeshadow]

I was just trying to use the existing rules. To make it more accurate I think you would have to make your own school.

The idea of just buying a soldier cleric that can't level is an option. In that case what would a good cost be. So let's say I make a priest that is the same stats as an apothecary without the healing potion but has the heal spell. Or a Knight that can cast the heal spell. What would be a fair purchase price for them?

Like I posted previous make them 200gc with a base preq.