Warmaster [My adventure into 10mm]

[fred]

A great start, I like how the goblin wizard on the wolf has come out, he is one of my favourite sculpts. You are right that you don't need to overdo the detail, as it rapidly gets lost at playing distances. Concentrate your efforts on the bits that get seen the most, shields, weapons and heads.

The houses have come out very nicely too.

[fred]

Really good work! I have not seen any 10-12mm miniatures that close up before, there is a surprising amount of detail, not the "blobs" of metal I was expecting....I look forward to seeing more.

Most modern 10mm figures have loads of detail. I think the TB Line Arabs are the most detailed I have, there is almost more detail than you want to paint.

[grubman]

Thanks again guys for the compliments and support   It helps to further motivate me.

I probably haven't earned the right to "review" (or give opinions, anyway) any 10mm miniatures yet...but I think I already got spoiled with my first line (Kalistra).

I got my Magister Militum (goblin) order today.  I think they will be OK scale-wise...although they are considerably chunkier with less deep groove detail than the Kalistra line.  So overall, I think they will paint fine and look OK once done...but they are single based, and I have to say, after starting on my first unit of Kalistra models on the 4 model strips, I'm not excited about fiddling with tiny individual models, especially since they don't seem like they were designed to rank up very well on a (20x40mm base).  Also there is a lot of flash...which, again, is kind of a pain when you are looking at piles of little figures and each and every one has to be cleaned and trimmed individually.  Also, in case you are going to order from them, even though the MM site lists (under details) the number of bases that come with each unit...note, you don't actually get any .

So...slightly disappointed, but I think it's primarily because the Kalistra ones are so good in comparison.

Just my initial impressions upon opening the package.

I'm guessing each and every order from a different manufacturer is going to give me some "issues" at this scale, where a millimeter difference, or a bit of chunk or flaw is going to be obvious.

[Davout]

Have you tried Polar Fox minis? Their goblin sculpts are great. http://www.polarfox.info/storepage2627792.aspx

[grubman]

Have you tried Polar Fox minis? Their goblin sculpts are great. http://www.polarfox.info/storepage2627792.aspx

I actually did consider those...it's going to sound funny (considering the game), but after painting so many GW miniatures in my lifetime, I wanted to build armies for this game that don't look exactly like GW clones.

I'll make the MM ones work (especially since I spent about $50 on the lot ). Who knows...they might end up being my favorite units once all the "work" is done.

[fred]

The strips vs single figures conundrum. Within my gaming group there are some who really only want 10mm figures mounted on strips - for very much the reasons you point out, easier to handle, quicker to paint (you really only need to paint 2 sides of each figures, not 4!), and easier to base up in ranks. The problem is that only Kallistra and GW make / made figures in strips.

I don't have any MM goblins, but have lots of their other figures, and like all of them. I'm not aware of them having lots of flash, but its a while since I got Kallistra figures, so I don't recal if the Kallistra ones are particularly clean.

If you like the Kallistra ranges, its worth knowing that the Pendraken Fantasy figures (and only the Fantasy ones) scale well with Kallistra. Many years ago, Kallistra used Pendraken figures as the basis of their ranges (with permission). Since then Kallistra have added loads more figures, and Pendraken have recently updated their figures with the Warband ranges, so they have moved apart over time, but scale wise they still work well together.   The Pendraken Warband Command and Wizard packs are particularly good. 

[grubman]

I don't have any MM goblins, but have lots of their other figures, and like all of them. I'm not aware of them having lots of flash.

Oh, I like them (or I wouldn't have chosen them over all the other goblins)...but it's hard not to compare the two when they are the only reference you have .  "A lot of flash" is probably an overstatement, but each model has little bits that have to be removed and bases that need to be sanded flat...and that's tedious work on such small models.  Nothing that will kill me...but bitching on forums is simply casual conversation

If you like the Kallistra ranges, its worth knowing that the Pendraken Fantasy figures (and only the Fantasy ones) scale well with Kallistra. Many years ago, Kallistra used Pendraken figures as the basis of their ranges (with permission). Since then Kallistra have added loads more figures, and Pendraken have recently updated their figures with the Warband ranges, so they have moved apart over time, but scale wise they still work well together.   The Pendraken Warband Command and Wizard packs are particularly good. 

Thanks, I was aware of that, but it's good to have it mentioned on the thread.

[grubman]

A GIANT problem!!

OK, not really, but I’m taking a break from painting up my first unit this morning and that sounded like a dramatic title.

Made my 3rd order, so I’m about $200 USD in and have two 1,000 point armies (and a ton of extras).  I’m feeling a bit guilty about spending any more money before I actually play my first game.

This brings us to the giant.  I won’t lie, I have a real soft spot for giants in my greenskin armies.  I ordered a “Hill Giant” from MM…but he looks a bit undramatic.  I know what giant I REALLY want, but really don’t want to spend more than $10-15 total for it…so I might be waiting a while.

Here is the one I REALLY want from (who else) Tom Meier, stands about 50mm:  http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/images/f/fd/RP-01-121.jpg

Below are my options from my unused miniature collection.  I’m leaning toward the Troll Giant…but thought it might be fun to get other opinions (left to right).

-Kalistra Orcs for scale
-MM Hill Giant (10mm range)
-Troll Giant (Can’t remember where I got this one from…but I’ve seen it from a couple amnufacturers)
-Irregular Miniatures Viking (54mm range)
-The Tom Meier giant I do have (OK, but I like the sloppier looking one)

[fred]

I see what you mean about the MM Hill Giant, he is a bit meh.

I like the Troll giant the most. With the Hill Giant in the blister second. If you were to use the Viking you would probably want to add a few accessories to re-scale him a bit. The GW ones often have bodies, or cart wheels or similar to give an indication of human scale on the giant.

One of my favourite bits of 10mm armies, is being able to add big monsters to them - lots of the GW Warmaster monsters are in the 40-50mm tall range. They look suitably impressive compared to the normal troops.

[Major_Gilbear]

I actually did consider those...it's going to sound funny (considering the game), but after painting so many GW miniatures in my lifetime, I wanted to build armies for this game that don't look exactly like GW clones.

I sympathise and understand! 

The official GW models are actually very nice and very detailed/crisp models, but they are the most expensive by some margin. They are also very distinctive, and I so I appreciate wanting something that's an obvious parallel but not in the same style.

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Regarding the giants, I agree with fred. However, I can totally understand wanting the Tom Meir one in the link - it fits the look/feel of a greenskin army very well I think.

Personally, I hope to use this one from Iron Wind Metals for my greenskins when I eventually get to them:



He's pretty big for 10mm, but it's his pose that lets him "scale" so well - he's stooping down to bash something small, and it happens to suit that 10mm models perfectly - like he's trying to bash them!

[grubman]

I considered that one...but like many giant miniatures, I disqualified it because for some reason I have a real problem with a giant that has clothes/armor and weapons that fit.  I know, there is no reason why they wouldn't...just one of those things I can't get over.

I do like the pose thought...which suddenly made me realize the flaw with a lot of giants (or substitute giant) miniatures...most of them are looking (or attacking) forward.  They should ALL be looking/attacking down.

Hmmm...

[Pendrake]

For your Giant would a 28mm Ogre fit the bill?



That is Garnunk the Ogre, Reaper minis #02288. His left knuckle is at about 25mm from the table. The whole figure is 50mm, maybe 55mm tall.

He would represent a 30 foot tall giant (calculating 10mm is 6ft, 5x6ft = 30 foot tall giant).

There are lots of other Ogres in the 50mm size range if that pose dissapoints.

This is Kagunk:

Also from Reaper, I think that is the plastic version, but he exists in metal also. He is attacking downward. (But maybe too much well-crafted gear?) The shield is a separate article. If it was too OTT, it could be replaced with a barn door or something.

If you know someone who collects GW Ogres they might have enough spare pieces to cobble one together if you didn't mind plastic.

[Major_Gilbear]

With respect to clothing and such on giants, I do agree with you to some extent. However, i feel this depends on what you consider:

- Do the giants have their own (perhaps small and low-tech) communities? I mean in terms of making their own clothes and/or basic weapons.

- Are the giants enticed/captured/reared by the forces that employ them, and if so, would those forces make giant-sized equipment for their asset?

- Are giants solitary creatures, largely incapable of making much/anything themselves, and who are equipped in an ad-hoc way by the forces they (temporarily) ally with?


I feel that GW games the giants in O&G armies are usually the last option, but that for Chaos forces the middle option might be more accurate. However, there is no reason for some, none, or all the above to be accurate within the same game world. Therefore I personally prefer to focus on what I think looks good, what gives the right sense of scale (so pose is important for me), and am happy add other bits myself as I see fit.

In the IWM giant example above, you could re-fashion the club to something a bit cruder-looking, make a few cuts in the mail to represent damage that would be very tricky/expensive to repair (and so hasn't been), and maybe add a few shields to form shoulder pads or belt details (press-mould these off some regular 10mm models). You could also add things that help to give better scale context - like a barrel or treasure chest hanging off their belt, making the club into a tree, or giving them a shield made from a large timber door for instance.

The Meir giant in your link is good because he does have a number of these features too - like the barrel on his belt, and the club made from a tree - but the sauntering upright pose is what "spoils" it for me at these sorts of scales.

[grubman]

For your Giant would a 28mm Ogre fit the bill?

Oh, I've found a ton of miniatures (Giants of various scales, trolls, ogres) that would make great 10mm giants...but unless I find a "have to have it model" I'm trying to save a little cash.

- Are giants solitary creatures, largely incapable of making much/anything themselves, and who are equipped in an ad-hoc way by the forces they (temporarily) ally with?

I like this one best .  GW did sort of "ruin" me in that I always think of giants as rather dull, lazy, and probably drunk.

[grubman]

I finished my first unit (spearmen) for the Orc and Gobbo army.  At this rate I did the math and I should be ready to play a 1,000 point army with 2 forces by October!!

The Good:  I have to say, this first unit was quit a rush!  Looking at this massive unit that fits in the palm of my hand really gives a feeling of a grandiose army and battle.  It might sound silly, but got the same giddy feeling upon finishing this as I did decades ago when I painted my first WFB unit.  That kind of rare “first time” feeling is something you can’t put a price tag on.

The Bad:  While I like the look of the unit, the yellow/green doesn’t “pop” as much as it probably should.  I repeatedly read from painters you need to make colors bright or the units all blend into each other at this scale.  I may go back and try to highlight the yellow a bit more, maybe the green as well (which I didn’t highlight at all).  I might also re-color the grey wolf fur on the spears yellow just to add a bit more color.

I’ve always liked duller tones in my miniatures, so this is a change for me…and it requires me to come up with new techniques to accomplish.  It might not be bad if the Orcs have this look…but it will definitely have to be contrasted by brighter colors in other armies, or all my armies will look the same on the table.  My Orcs & Goblins were supposed to look like a splash of green and yellow, and I’m just not seeing that.  Perhaps I should have made the shields yellow as well?