A Very American Civil War: Let's hear your thoughts.

[Doc Twilight]

I've seen a few posts here, and in a few other places, regarding thoughts of an ACW in the 1930s, and I thought it might be helpful to get a general discussion going, as there are several approaches taking place out there. Cory for example, has done some very nice Lindy's Legion types just recently. I know that one of the frustrations for some of us doing the BCW outside the UK is that we aren't as well connected to British geography, history, or political reality, so it can be a bit difficult to imagine appropriately realistic factions, events, etc.

I've talked about this with several folks, even briefly toyed with starting a discussion group, but this seems like a logical place to start.
So what are your thoughts on an American component to this slowly emerging trend of hypothetical but historically plausible wars?

My thoughts always center around the Bonus March, MacArthur, and the "Business Plot" (this was the scheme to overthrow Roosevelt and replace him with a military dictatorship). I see a great deal of Socialist (not Communist, but Socialist) sympathy among the Bonus Marchers, with some Bolsheivist/Communist sentiment in other parts of the country, along with an equal amount of right wing sympathy. Throw in the religious activists and radio evangelists of the day (Amy Semple MacPhearson, the famous radio priest who's name I forget but was censored by the Church for his anti-semitic ravings, etc), include the plight of the African American in the South, and you've got quite a potent mixture there.

Just wanting to hear your thoughts, ideas, in general. Maybe something interesting will spring out of all this.

-Doc

[Hammers]

I always thoughtPhilip Roth's [wiki]The Plot Against America[/wiki] would be a great way to start a alternate US history collection. Jewish Defence Leagues, KKK, Silvershirts, Chicago Socialists etc.

[Mad Carew Snr]

I always thoughtPhilip Roth's [wiki]The Plot Against America[/wiki] would be a great way to start a alternate US history collection. Jewish Defence Leagues, KKK, Silvershirts, Chicago Socialists etc.

Sounds a good read. Thanks for the link!

[Cory]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here

A slower read than Roth's book, Sinclair Lewis' novel It Can't Happen Here is a good period take on the situation.

The 1920's saw the red scare and labor crisis around the country, many so intense that federal troops and even aircraft were called in. Much of the value in the Roosevelt administration's New Deal was not necessarily in improving the economy but in making the masses feel that the government, long seen as a tool of industry, was finally on their side. Thus the administration needs removed and is weakest at two points - when first starting out in '33 and again in '37 when the economy stalls a second time.  The first time period seems to be the best point to start breaking from real history.

For our games so far we have gone with the '32 march having turned far more violent. Simply having more guns amongst the marchers (most had been sold for food) might have done it or one of the fires getting out of control and trapping families in the occupied federal buildings maybe. However one chooses the eyes and ears of the country were on DC that week and a higher casualty list along with a weak president Hoover and an ambitious MacArthur could have galvanized the sides. Follow it up with some sort of Business Plot seizing the presidency and the stage is set.

[Cory]

Oh, the priest was father Coughlin. There are recordings of him at the Library of Congress website.

[Schweizer]

As it was a moral/economic issue that caused the first civil war, it might not be difficult to believe that another moral/economic issue would cause a second.

Prohibition - the war could last from 1920 to 1933.  If one could figure a way to tie it into early 20th century American Bolshevism...

[flooglestreet]

I second the recommendation for the Sinclair Lewis book. Lewis had a fictional state where many of his novels are set (Babbitt Elmer Gantry Arrowsmith) and they provide very workable NPCs. Also the Minute Men, Lewis' version of Hitlers SA are easy to model, just put pulp era weapons in the hands of ACW Union Cavalry (you want the cleaner idealised version of the uniform) and cut off the saber scabbards.

[Wolf 359]

  Well, whatever you guys come up with, I think that it's obligatory that a Texas faction be included. The Republic would be more than happy to secede from the union at that time.

[Geudens]

  Well, whatever you guys come up with, I think that it's obligatory that a Texas faction be included. The Republic would be more than happy to secede from the union at that time.

With the help of Mexican troops & volunteers, their warcry being: "Remember the Alamo, YES we can!!!!!"

[leadfool]

The KKK would be a major faction.  In the 20s at least they were large, haveing 10,000 member marches in Wash D.C., decideing the election of Congressmen and U.S. Senators from states like Indiana.  

You might look at the Harry Turtledove series, American Empire, in which his world has the convederacy surviving the American Civil War.  He has an antiblack "Freedom" party, similar to the Nazi party, arising in depression era south.  

As FDR was in a wheel chair for much of his presidency and his staff, with the media, conspireing to keep that info from the US public, perhaps one of the deciding events is that that "secret" gets out and actually does effect an election, in either 32 or 36.  

The bonus march was confronted by MacArther, along with Eisenhower, Patton and Bradley.  Any of those could lead a faction, that is opposed to the others, particularly if they were to blame the "bonus march fiasco" on another.  

There was a Marine General that was to be part of the Business plan.  Lindburgh was stongly  isolationist and pro Nazi, as was Joe Kennedy, US embassador to England.

Frankly, looking at the history, it is surprising the US did not fall apart.  That era makes our current troubles look simple.

[HerbyF]

Let's not forget we nearly had our civil war. Bloody Thurday & the general strike in 1934. Or the Canfield war Striking miners verses Pinkertons. A freind of mine has been thinking about doing a Bloody Thursday scenario. West coast longshoremen verses police & national guard.

[Poliorketes]

Going into a second ACW and forgetting Crimson Skies?

[Calimero]

  Well, whatever you guys come up with, I think that it's obligatory that a Texas faction be included. The Republic would be more than happy to secede from the union at that time.

With the help of Mexican troops & volunteers, their warcry being: "Remember the Alamo, YES we can!!!!!"

 

[Schweizer]

Going into a second ACW and forgetting Crimson Skies?

I played this as a video game (one of the five or so I've played in the last few years)... was their ever an rpg branch?  it seems like it'd tie in really well to this/give it a good basis.

[flooglestreet]

  Well, whatever you guys come up with, I think that it's obligatory that a Texas faction be included. The Republic would be more than happy to secede from the union at that time.

Texas? What part of New York City is that?