Mounties vs Indians?

[bulldogger2000]

Hello all,

I was hoping that the collective (hmmm sounds awfully socialist,  I must be hearing too much Obama) could provide some information.

Our group is in the midst of entering into Plains Indian Wars gaming.  You know...the usual US Cavalry and Plains Indians stuff.  We'll eventually do Mexicans and Apaches or Commanches as well. 

My question is about North of the US border in Canada.  I know that the Canadians had a much better relationship with the Indians than the US did.  But were there any combats fought between the Mounties and Indians? 

I have 16 mounted RAFM Mounties already painted.   And, I will need dismounted versions as well.  RAFM does not have dismounted versions for their Mounties.  Second question...Does any one in the group know who does have dismounted versions....or am I doomed to do conversions?

Thanks for any help you may provide.


 

[rjandron]

There weren't many. There were skirmishes, battles, and outright massacres but these rarely involved the mounties.

The only one that comes to mind is Duck Lake: NWMP fights against Gabriel Dumont and Metis. One of the first battles of the Riel Rebellion of 1885.

Of course, there's always the fights against the Whiskey Traders. The Great March West of 1873 was to shut down the infamous Whiskey Fort: Fort Whoop-up. History shows that nothing was found at the Fort, but it would have been an interesting battle had it occurred.

There was also the Cypress Hill Massacre (Wolf-Skinners vs. Cree), and the Battle of the Belly River (Blackfoot vs. Cree), and the Red River Rebellion (1870) but these occurred before the formation of the NWMP.

I hate to say that you are doomed to conversions. The NWMP, expecially those in the pill-box caps, are tough to find. You could use Stetson-hatted Mounties, since those saw service from 1874-onwards as an expedient replacement for lost and worn uniform items. I think Pulp Figures does a Stetson-wearing Mountie.

[Chairface]

The NWMP spent more time protecting the natives from American whiskey traders than fighting them. Rjandron sums it up pretty well.

[commissarmoody]

http://www.rafm.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RAF&Category_Code=RR

here you go mate! 

look a little bit below the Mounties to see the Canadian Militia

[bulldogger2000]

There weren't many. There were skirmishes, battles, and outright massacres but these rarely involved the mounties.

The only one that comes to mind is Duck Lake: NWMP fights against Gabriel Dumont and Metis. One of the first battles of the Riel Rebellion of 1885.

Of course, there's always the fights against the Whiskey Traders. The Great March West of 1873 was to shut down the infamous Whiskey Fort: Fort Whoop-up. History shows that nothing was found at the Fort, but it would have been an interesting battle had it occurred.

There was also the Cypress Hill Massacre (Wolf-Skinners vs. Cree), and the Battle of the Belly River (Blackfoot vs. Cree), and the Red River Rebellion (1870) but these occurred before the formation of the NWMP.

I hate to say that you are doomed to conversions. The NWMP, expecially those in the pill-box caps, are tough to find. You could use Stetson-hatted Mounties, since those saw service from 1874-onwards as an expedient replacement for lost and worn uniform items. I think Pulp Figures does a Stetson-wearing Mountie.

Thanks rjanron....

Even if there was ONE combat between Indians and Mounties I'd feel better about sticking to my need to stick to my "historical guns".

I do have some of the Pulp Mounties...but realize that the campaign hat is not fromthe same era.  I guess I am destine to be converting dismounted Mounties.

commisarmoody....thanks for that link.  But, as I stated I am looking for dismounted Mounties and RAFM does not have those available.\

[Wirelizard]

True story on the differences between the American & Canadian frontiers: When Sitting Bull and co. fled to Canada after wiping out Custer & the 7th at Little Big Horn, they were met by and surrendered to a single NWMP officer.

We had a much less interesting time of it on this side of the border, but there are still interesting skirmishes and of course what-ifs to play with!

[odd duck]

There is an action in the north west rebellion where Sam Steele led a patrol of  20 nwmp, 20 scouts and 22alberta mounted rifles in pursuit of a band of Cree who were believed to have white prisoners  a short action with an indian ambush being triggered prematurely. I just did a quick skimming of the relevant pages of Sam Steele's 40 years in Canada for that info, I believe the action was later given a name(i have seen a book on it)but Steele does'nt mention one. There is also the pursuit of Almightyvoice,hope I have the name right, An indian wanted for cattle rustling and murder who was cornered in a

[leadfool]

The Riel rebellion has something like what you want.  The Meti were a 1/2 indian people.  Basically they were the offspring of the French and Scottish trappers and native women.  As they were rejected by both groups, they formed their own society.  Their dress was an interesting combo of native and european.  They fought and hunted mostly with firearms, farmed, fished, logged, etc.  

The fights were when "civilized" folks from Eastern Canada wanted to move west and displace the Meti, and in particular change the way the property was laid out, from long narrow rectangles to squares.  It seems wierd but that really was an issue.  The long rectangles made sense for the geography, the squares only make sense for map makers.  The rctangles were designed to have some land devoted to the plains (ie farm land), ome land in the woods near the river (for hunting and wood) and access to the only transportation, the rivers.

Most of Canadas history involves so few white folk and that were there more as traders then settlers, or if they did stay married local women, that there were far fewer fights.  Canada and the NWMP were far more concerned with Americans.

  

[leadfool]

Sam Steele and his Second in command Billy Fury (You couldn't make up better names) fought Railway workers strike in 1885.  That might make an interesting fight.
A mountie named William Brocke Wilde in 1882 managed to break up the camp of a Cree indian band , lead by a chief named Piapot.  The Cree had first torn up some 40 miles of survey stakes and then set up camp in the planed path of the Railroad.  Wilde and another Mountie rode up and confronted Piapot and his 2030 warriors.  Wilde gave them 15 minutes to move and when they did not somply got off his horse and started dropping the lodge poles.  This impressed Piapot and he moved the camp.
   

[leadfool]

Bulldogger, Rajandron is correct, your best bet is the fight at Duck lake.

in 1885, 55 Mounted police, 43 volunteers, and a 7 pounder cannon, led by a Major Leif Crozier, went to arrest Louis Riel and his "renegade" Meti.  They met up with Riel and 150 Meti with their military leader Gabriel Dumont.  Dumont was a buffalo hunter and a crack shot.  He also had a great tactical sense. 

The fight did not go well for the Mounties, they lost something like 10 dead and 14 wounded, before they fled.  The Meti lost 5 dead and 3 wounded, including Isidore Dumont, Gabriel's Brother who was holding a white flag at the time he was shot, most likely be one of the volunteers. 

Oh well enough history of Canada.  Have fun with the figures what ever you do with them.

[odd duck]

Sorry my last post got sent out before it was finished(my mouse is on the fritz) I was mentioning the Almightyvoice incident where an indian wanted for murder and cattle rustling held off a large detachment of mounties with an accomplice in a small patch of trees , The mounties had to bring up artillery to get them as the indians had the only cover available for miles!I think they made a movie about this incident with Donald Sutherland can't remember the name.Basicly outside the northwest rebellion conflicts between the mounties and the indians would be of a law inforcement nature. Hope this helps

[argsilverson]

If you need dismounted Mounties, then look at:

Pulp figures:
http://www.pulpfigures.com/catcode.php?range=Yukon%20Peril&code=PYP&number=1&custID=79166129181239095729

item PYP1 has one mounted and one dismounted.

HLBS company has some mounties in mounted and dismounted versions, plus some in winter gear.
HLBS ceased the production of their 28mm miniatures but, Tiger miniatures took over some miniatures ranges. See here:
http://www.tigerminiatures.co.uk/

All the above are in stetsons, if you need other types/pillbox cap etc, you need to make conversions.
I am afraid also that the size of the miniatures  are not very compatible. If I remember well RAFM are little taller than nowdays miniatures. I also think thaT HLBS/Tiger ones are tall ones.

On size comparison might someone else in LAF might help you. I have never seen the RAFM ones. 

[bulldogger2000]

The groups combined knowledge didn't disappoint.  Thank you all for the information.


Argsilverson...  The RAFM are actually a little smaller than most figures today being closer to the "true" 25mm.   Not bad figures in sculpting and design and they have some very nice ACW artillery for fortresses.  Some of the really BIG stuff most companies don't make.

[HerbyF]

I have a copy of that Donald Sutherland movie. It is titled Dan Candy's Law. Very good back ground for a Mounty vs Native American scenario.

[postal]

I am painting brigades state police from their mob wars line as texas state troopers,and I was thinking they can pass as mounties too.you might want to take a gander at those.