Plastic or Metal?

[FifteensAway]

Didn't read the whole thread but a great reason to NOT use plastics: nano plastics.  They are literally killing our oceans.  Metal at least is fully degradable but pollutive, sure.  Plastic will be around for a very, very long time and is a disaster for the environment.  We only have one of those.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Didn't read the whole thread but a great reason to NOT use plastics: nano plastics.  They are literally killing our oceans.  Metal at least is fully degradable but pollutive, sure.  Plastic will be around for a very, very long time and is a disaster for the environment.  We only have one of those.

Wargamers are nature-born recyclers. I don't know you, but I re-use everything, even the frames of my plastic figures -commonly, they are recycled as debris in buildings, scenery, ecc.

[Timmo]

They all do to some extent


But I get weary of hearing arguments that don't stand up to scrutiny used to diss plastic figures. Like 'they take far too much time and trouble to prepare compared to metal figures'. It's a myth.
Unless you're lucky enough to get a batch of super-clean, one-piece metal castings which don't require any clean up or prep at all, (or I suppose, if you don't care about mould lines and flash on your finished miniatures), then in my experience there's no difference in the time and faff required to clean and assemble a plastic figure, versus the time and faff required to clean and assemble a metal one. And on balance, having done several hundred of each over the last few years, I'd actually say plastic is a quicker, easier and more enjoyable job. But then I'm sure there are people who enjoy the process of cleaning up metal figures too.

Good job we can now buy metal and plastic figures so we can both enjoy our different takes on making up our forces - what you call a myth is reality for me. The AWI 28mm plastics I tried were so bad I had to build up a new hairline with green stuff to disguise the join between hair and hat. Just as you write that some don't mind mould lines showing on their metal figures I can equally write – I guess if you don't mind have arm/torso joins showing use plastics. Have you seen how bad the plastic Perry Madhists are compared to their metals? Again my experience is not mythical it just differs from yours – as I noted before AB and F&D metals are usually near perfect casts and some take 30 seconds to go over with a file. I remember an article Henry Hyde wrote about preparing Perry ACW cavalry – that was a great piece for me to read as it confirmed some of the truths about resolving badly fitting plastic horse parts. Every single one needed filling around the neck joins. I can drill faster than I can fill so I guess drilling metal hands is my preference.

To be honest I thought at the time of first release and still think the biggest benefits of hard plastic 28mm wargaming figures has perry much never been exploited. They aren't really that cheap and they aren't any faster to prep than well cast metal figures (YMMV). Now had the Perrys or anybody else bought out one piece figures (say like Airfix HO/OO tended to be, in march attack for about 25p a figure) I'd have been all over them. I'm certainly not against plastic as a material for figures, far from it but my experience is almost a polar opposite to yours and I by far prefer Perry metal to their plastics as the posing looks more natural. I did some of their dismounted French dragoons and the poses were hysterical with the arms flapping about even though one arm was holding a carbine, the pose gave the figure a curious gait.

I'll definitely continue to enjoy seeing your pictures of the plastic figures that you post but currently they aren't for me – I'll stick to my ABs.

[AdamPHayes]

Now had the Perrys or anybody else bought out one piece figures (say like Airfix HO/OO tended to be, in march attack for about 25p a figure) I'd have been all over them.

This seems to be the approach EM4 have taken with their ACW plastics.

http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/American-Civil-War.html

[Axebreaker]

Up to now I overwhelmingly prefer metal in most cases for reasons many have already given, but I do mix some plastic in here and there.

Since I paint at a relatively leisurely pace the cost of metal/plastic isn't much of a factor so I'm free to paint what I like rather then what costs less.

Christopher

[olicana]

I have recently painted some Perry plastics for a very old and valued client. If anyone else had asked I would have said no - they are just too much trouble to build and I'm not sure about some of the flappy arm poses previously mentioned in this thread.

Having said that the crisp highly detailed nature of the figures bits is very impressive - much better than metal in many respects. They painted up very nicely, if I say so myself, and they would look good on the table beside any of my figures.

BUT, and here's the thing: I had 16 cavalry on a painting tray (transport to and from painting station to cabinet) and every time I picked the thing up I nearly tossed the whole lot up to the ceiling. I found the lack of weight very disconcerting.

If plastic is your bag, so be it. The figures are lovely to look at. For me they lack the 'heft' and 'solidity' of metal and consequently this somehow makes them seem less than they are. I'll stick to metal until the lead content gets the 'toxic' label attached and they are banned from sale - it'll happen eventually.

[olicana]

Oh and the 'heft' thing was another classic. What a load of complete s**t that one was.

Actually, that one is real. I like figures that have some weight to them. Heft is a thing that does not solely apply to plastics. It's why the only small scale (15mm) figures I have is for Western Desert tank battles, where you're mainly moving fairly hefty  tanks about; it's why I bought 1:600 galleys rather than 1:1200 galleys; it's why I sold my 1:2400 scale Napoleonic fleets; it's why I do multi-figure stands and don't do skirmish games; the lack of 'heft' is the one thing I don't like about X-Wing - the damn things always seem to get jogged about whereas my white metal 1:144 scale WW1 aircraft don't.

It has nothing to do with looks or play-ability. It has everything to do with something having a tactile 'heft'. It makes no sense really but, it is a real feeling about the feeling. I like my game counters with soldiers on to be chunky and heavy. I feel the same way about poker chips, preferring chunky clay to thin plastic; it's why I prefer a crystal glass to an ordinary glass; it's why I prefer chunky solid metal cutlery to cutlery of similar size with light (including bone / ivory) handles.

[vodkafan]

I totally agree about the "heft" of metal; it is pleasing.

[FierceKitty]

The VERY highly-regarded critic, painter, and historian Adrian Stokes refers lovingly to the satisfying "mass effect" as he calls it of lead figures (he would have been thinking about the old 54s) when talking about sculpture, which he clearly regards as the greatest of the arts. Those who prefer metals partly on account of their weight (including me) are in distinguished company.

[westwaller]

I do wonder if those who struggle with plastic figures are using the right glue to put them together. If you use superglue the joins will show, and the arms etc, will probably fall off if you give them a sharp knock. plastic glue such as Revell contacta, will keep the bits welded on and in most cases, really blend in the arm joints.

I don't mind either but I do notice that a lot of metals have 'short arm syndrome'. I've seen so many metal figure with a pointing pose with an arm that even accounting for the proportions of 28mm figures, looks far too short.

I do understand however that for Naps, it might seem pointless to have to put together plastic figures that are going to look fairly regimented when assembled anyway. I feel similar about warlords plastic ECW infantry- Its a fairly boring build, that in all honesty offers me little of the advantages of plastic figures.

[olicana]

I do wonder if those who struggle with plastic figures are using the right glue to put them together. If you use superglue the joins will show, and the arms etc, will probably fall off if you give them a sharp knock. plastic glue such as Revell contacta, will keep the bits welded on and in most cases, really blend in the arm joints.

It never occurred to me to use anything else. I must have had my tube of Humbrol poly cement for over 10 years (I don't do plastic figures, so it rarely sees the light of day) but having built plastic kits in the past I know nothing beats it for welding hard plastic. I've also used the brush on liquid, which some say is the professional 'cleaner to use' product; I suppose which one is best depends mainly on manual dexterity and practice. 

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Yep. I wonder too about the presumed fragility of joints in plastic figures. I use Tamiya Extra Thin Liquid Cement and never have any problem whatsoever with plastic joints.

Anyway, I like both plastics and metals, so I am a happy man. My wallet not so much, though.

[Axebreaker]

@Paul(Scurv)

I respect your view on plastics and metal, but not calling other peoples point of view BS.  We are not talking about facts, but rather opinions so a hobbyist opinion on a product is all their own and rather absurd for one to tell them otherwise.

Christopher

[olicana]

....and likewise, you are going to have to accept that I think you are a very silly man for expressing yourself in the manner that you do. Perhaps you've had a bad day and feel the need to vent at people you don't know.

C'est la vie.

[AdamPHayes]

I for one can never hear too many “astute viewpoints”...