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Author Topic: To Ur is Human - A review  (Read 3170 times)

Offline SteveBurt

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 798
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2019, 10:01:33 AM »
Yes, but the third horse in the three horse chariots wasn't attached to the yoke. Apparently it aids with turning, and obviously it is also a spare if one of the other horses is wounded.
All chariots are pretty light. The Egyptian ones could be carried by one man, and the Assryrian ones by two.

Offline OB

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 401
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2019, 11:05:47 AM »
I didn't know that Steve, interesting.

Yes, the Illiad mentions heroes picking up chariots.  The chariot was great technology when you think about it.

Offline DivisMal

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1765
  • GhazkullĎs Favorite Brainboy
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2019, 10:16:02 AM »
To make myself clear: Iím not suggesting regular armies like in the late Bronze Age....but much more than what we expected from the Neolithic!

Thanks for that DivisMal. Yes, certainly neolithic/chalcolithic big fortified settlements, warrior graves, advancing weapons tech, chiefdoms, paramount chiefdoms, proto-states. I had the impression that the Yamnaya Indo-European speakers brought advanced metal weapons tech into western Europe along with horses and chariots c. 2500 BC. I wasn't aware of any evidence for chariots in the ANE before bronze age Sumeria.

In any case, I'll watch for your future posts on the subject. Take care.

Thanks, and sorry for another slightly ot-answer.
Itís a big issue for at least 100 years, and I canít solve it in a forum on gaming little metal men, but wheels, advanced metallurgy (arsenic-copper alloys) are definitely pre-Yamnaja and belong to the earlier Majkop horizon.

Back to topic:
From what I read this could be a nice system to modify for many pre- and protohistoric periods!

Offline Trebian

  • Student
  • Posts: 12
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2019, 04:44:47 PM »
@DivisMal: The structure of TEIH is very open, and it is fairly easy to tweak the components without upsetting the game balance, except in the Fear Test. I didn't originally think of the system as applicable to other periods as I wasn't designing for them. However, it is becoming clear that it is suitable for other periods if armies think about each other in the way I have postulated for the Sumerians. All I would add is that I priced them at £5/$6 to make them sufficiently affordable that people would be prepared to look at them on the off chance they might work for them, so I suggest you pick up a copy and start to fiddle around with them.

I'm sort of think now that there's a supplement for pre and post Sumerian ideas, some time in the future.


Offline OB

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 401
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2019, 06:18:55 PM »
I think that's a good idea.

BTW I see Lancashire Games have 15%off their 15mm Biblical range.  Anyone wanting easy and inexpensive access into the period could have a look there and order a copy of To Ur.

Offline Trebian

  • Student
  • Posts: 12
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2019, 06:33:08 PM »
Glad you agree. It'll be a way down the road, and it'll need everyone to pitch in with ideas and play-testing, but it's worth a go. I wasa looking at my 6mmm Hittites this afternoon just in case.

It might also be a chance to deal with the other criticisms I got, - such as no army lists.

Offline OB

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 401
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2019, 11:53:21 AM »
In that spirit I've just posted a piece on my blog about using four horse chariots with To Ur.

https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com


Offline Trebian

  • Student
  • Posts: 12
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2019, 12:32:52 PM »
I've been and had a look and made a comment. There are some issues you need to think about in terms of the expected outcomes, but otherwise where you are coming from makes sense.

I make these comments from the point of view of a game designer and rules writer, not as a period expert.

Although I do have four horse Assyrian chariots.

Offline OB

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 401
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2019, 07:35:47 PM »
Thanks Trebian.

I've included your comment in the body of the blog post because sometimes people don't read comments and I wanted to make sure it was seen.

I hadn't actually thought of changing factors beyond  extending the plus 1 charging cart bonus into a second round for spear carts v non spear carts.

So, If a spear cart fought a spear and bow cart neither of them would have a close combat advantage.  They would fight exactly as the rules provide for.

Ditto two bow carts.  If a spear cart fought a bow only cart the spear cart would also get the charging chariot bonus in the second round of melee.

I need to work through your comments with the rules in front of me so I understand everything properly.

Offline Trebian

  • Student
  • Posts: 12
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2019, 07:50:22 PM »
I think you probably need to sit down with some chariots on a table, move them about, roll the dice and see if you like the outcome.

I don't know about extending the "charge bonus" to move two. If the spear armed chariot is superior in hand to hand combat then you need to modify the base combat scores in some way, whether dice rolled or to hit. Changing the dice rolled has an impact on the Fear Test whether you change the base score or the modifiers. The Fear Test then takes place before the combat, which then modifies the actual dice rolled. What you also need to decide is how much damage inflicted by the bows pre-combat is enough to potentially unsettle the spear chariot. Clearly as the rules stand they are unlikely to shoot away a whole base in a turn. If archery is part of the chariots' real threat to the enemy then capturing it in some way is important.

Damn. I'm circling this rabbit hole trying not to go down it, as I'm supposed to be working on my 19th century Pacific War rules.

Trebian

Offline fastolfrus

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4963
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2019, 08:24:50 PM »
Where can we buy the rules?
Gary, Glynis, and Alasdair (there are three of us, but we are too mean to have more than one login)

Offline Trebian

  • Student
  • Posts: 12
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2019, 08:27:20 PM »

Offline OB

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 401
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2019, 09:47:20 PM »
Sound advice I'll do just that and write it up.

Offline syrinx0

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Mastermind
  • *
  • Posts: 1571
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2019, 02:14:51 AM »
Thanks for all the work  OB.
2020: A:95 P:30; 2019:-471 2018: -47; 2017: -100; 2016:+1;


Offline OB

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 401
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2019, 08:21:31 PM »
Not a bother and thank you.  The festive season has kicked in early for me this year so bear with me on future updates.  I really do need to take Trebian's advice and try things out on the table top.