Brigade of Guards rank badges, BEF 1940

[Baron von Wreckedoften]

Can anyone tell me if there was anything special about the NCO chevrons for the Grenadier and Coldstream Guards in France in May/June 1940 (eg what colour was the backing material)? 

Were the chevrons worn only on the right arm, or on both?

I am aware of the regimental titles worn on the shoulders (white text, red background), but was there also a Guards' badge (I've seen blue/crimson/blue flash on the upper left shoulder with the "eye", but wasn't sure if that was late war)?

Thanks.

[Baron von Wreckedoften]

145 views and not one reply - amazing.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

145 views and not one reply - amazing.

Maybe they do not know. I do not know either.

That is the Guards Armoured Division symbol.

[fred]

Do you have a reason to think that there was something different about NCO rank insignia for the Guards Brigade? From a quick google I can’t see anything obviously different, they look to be on both arms, with khaki backing.

I don’t think divisional badges were worn in 1940, and the ever open eye badge of Guards Armoured Div wouldn’t have been seen in 1940 as the formation was only formed in 1941. There may have been simple coloured patches for brigades or divisions (like in WWI), but I can’t see anything obvious on photos. But then the captions on lots of photos seem a bit suspect anyway...

[Damas]

I've had a dig through the Coldstream archive and I can only find a couple of very grainy photos which show definite stripes on both arms with some kind of symbol above them, possibly showing specialisation (i.e. marksman, para, machine gunner, armoured division, etc.).  Definitely not a Guards badge as in 1940 this was represented by the brass cap badge on the peaked cap and shoulder boards.

The 1940 austerity uniform may have been different but this was introduced later.

[Baron von Wreckedoften]

Thanks, gentlemen.  Very helpful.

[Etranger]

Baron - these pictures of 1st Grenadier Guards from 1941 don't appear to show much in the way of unusual insignia, although the Battledress appears unusually well fitting... https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205197368



I'm struggling to find photos from 1939-40 that are positively identified as Guardsmen...

[Baron von Wreckedoften]

Thanks, Huw (sorry, I've only just seen this).  Perhaps this is why BDs looked so awful on everyone else - they were tailor-made for Guardsmen!

In terms of figures, was the gas-mask case universally worn in action?  I only ask because the best early war British I've yet found are Crusader, none of whom seem to be wearing them.

[Shahbahraz]

You would be on a fizzer if you didn't wear them. I wondered about the Crusader figures - to me the cases are iconic for EW British.

[Etranger]

Thanks, Huw (sorry, I've only just seen this).  Perhaps this is why BDs looked so awful on everyone else - they were tailor-made for Guardsmen!

In terms of figures, was the gas-mask case universally worn in action?  I only ask because the best early war British I've yet found are Crusader, none of whom seem to be wearing them.

Presumably you mean mounted on the chest? Common on Home Forces until around 1942 but rarely seen thereafter. They don't show up on photos from the desert battles though. RAF, RA and other units adopted other positions for the bag much earlier.



Labelled as 2nd Battalion Coldstream Guards, Cherbourg, 1939. (from wiki) They're in Service Dress, with the old standing collar and puttees.

All you could ever want to know, and more, about but British military gas masks here https://erenow.net/ww/british-military-respirators-anti-gas-equipment-two-world-wars/5.php

[Baron von Wreckedoften]

Presumably you mean mounted on the chest? Common on Home Forces until around 1942 but rarely seen thereafter. They don't show up on photos from the desert battles though. RAF, RA and other units adopted other positions for the bag much earlier.

I've seen photos of Australians in Malaya in late '41 wearing it on the chest (as per your photo).

The three men at the front of the column reminded me of something that went through my mind when I was watching Peter Jackson's The shall not grow old..... - what feckin' AWFUL teeth pre-modern British servicemen had!