WW1 Undead for "Weird War One"

[aircav]

I think its all fine as long as you follow & expand on the myths of the day.
You have Angels, St George (Joan of Arc for the French) with Agincourt Bowmen, spectral cavalry, the comrade in white, the hidden hand, The golgotha, the corpse factory & Colonel Hertzenwirth with his projection equipment

Thats all i can think of off the top of my head


Keith  

[Phil Robinson]

How about the sound weapon from the movie Biggles Adventures in Time

Stop it Robinson, NOW

[cdr]

Rasputin ?

[Hammers]

I'm another boring old fart who finds the proliferation of bolting zombies on to every genre, and the desire to "weirdify" every period a somewhat depressing trend. It's not that I'm not into fantastical subjects, it's just the approach always seems disappointingly familiar, without much imagination applied. How can we squeeze zombies into this period, and which vehicles from it would it be easy to fit legs to? Sooner or later all our games, whatever the period, are all going to look exactly the same. We'll just have one big board for zombie-walker-steam tank gaming. 

I was biting my tongue, thinking "be positive, and if you have nothing positive to say then say nothing, they're not hurting anyone", but seeing as such luminaries as Helen and Hammers have chipped in, then well...

*elbows Helen* Did you hear that? 'Luminaries'...

I am in no way consistent in this position.  I enjoy a bit of alternate or enhanced history now and then.

[Helen]

*elbows Helen* Did you hear that? 'Luminaries'...

I am in no way consistent in this position.  I enjoy a bit of alternate or enhanced history now and then.

Ouch! I was remindered yesterday from Michael Broadbent that we have gamed "Tannhauser" which I've the rules in front of me for when we have a game next.

The game comes in a box complete with painted miniatures and beautiful tokens. An expansion set is also available.

Set in 1949 and World War 1 has never ended. So the story goes on....

http://store.fantasyflightgames.com/showproducts.cfm?Step=1&FullCat=119

I bite my tongue and please no smarties...

Helen

[Hammers]

*elbows Helen* Did you hear that? 'Luminaries'...

I am in no way consistent in this position.  I enjoy a bit of alternate or enhanced history now and then.

...but, as I was going to add, they enjoyment is a bit reduced when weird is starting to look like the norm.

[Plynkes]

...but, as I was going to add, they enjoyment is a bit reduced when weird is starting to look like the norm.

That's the thing about it for me. Army list mentality. A checklist. The Germans have these weird things in their army, the Russians have this, the Yanks have that... What can we give the Brits? If every nation has recruiting offices just for werewolves, a Ministry of Zombies, and Harland and Wolff are fitting walker legs to battleships, then the fantastic and bizarre is so commonplace, that it ceases to be fantastic and bizarre, and it seems like you are playing Warhammer fantasy. I can see a lot of folks like this, but it just ain't for me.

I feel you need to create a compelling narrative for your games to make this shit work (in a Rattrap style maybe, something with a story, ideally a mystery) otherwise it is just shit. Don't just line up all the weird stuff in two armies and set them on each other.

[Doc Twilight]

I'm another boring old fart who finds the proliferation of bolting zombies on to every genre, and the desire to "weirdify" every period a somewhat depressing trend. It's not that I'm not into fantastical subjects, it's just the approach always seems disappointingly familiar, without much imagination applied. How can we squeeze zombies into this period, and which vehicles from it would it be easy to fit legs to? Sooner or later all our games, whatever the period, are all going to look exactly the same. We'll just have one big board for zombie-walker-steam tank gaming.  

I was biting my tongue, thinking "be positive, and if you have nothing positive to say then say nothing, they're not hurting anyone", but seeing as such luminaries as Helen and Hammers have chipped in, then well...

I'm not particularly a fan of Zombie fiction, but... World War One has always had more appeal to me as an "alternate" reality setting than WW2. No Mans Land is, to me, far more evocative of nightmare and legend than the landings at Normandy. I recently read Mike Mignola's "Baltimore", and found it to be richly evocative of the sorts of things I like to see in alternate history. I am, admittedly, in the minority here in the states, where alternate history involves Turtledove's 37th novel about the Nazis winning WW2 or the Confederacy somehow winning the American Civil War.

Perhaps it's because I'm a VSF lover at heart, and WW1 is the "dark future" envisioned in novels of the genre, or perhaps it's because the first alternate history book I ever read was a cheap paperback called "The Wild Blue and the Grey", in which a Cherokee pilot flies on behalf of the French...

But I will always be fascinated by the conundrum and horror of the Great War, for better or for worse. Undead Nazis? Not so interesting to me. But put a lost patrol in the middle of No Man's land with cruel abominations struggling forth from the muck and miasma... then you have me. Give me Austro-Hungarian forces battling or utilizing the forces of Magyar (and hence: Transylvanian) legend, and you've got a story.

"I feel you need to create a compelling narrative for your games to make this shit work (in a Rattrap style maybe, something with a story, ideally a mystery) otherwise it is just shit. Don't just line up all the weird stuff in two armies and set them on each other."

Well, nobody asked me what my plans were for the WW1 Undead, so since I started the topic, I take slight umbrage at the insinuation that this was the point of my post. But I understand your feelings on the matter. If I, for one, see one more attempt to do "Pulp Japan" with Mecha and other things that are in no way related to actual Japanese culture and not some big eyed, small mouthed, abomination.... I also find it amusing that virtually every "Weird War Two" range seems to be set in 1944, on the Western Front, or in 1943, around Stalingrad.

I wish Brigade, for example, had considered expanding it's range of "WW2 Ghosts"... those sorts of things reflect actual Japanese cultural beliefs, and would be perfect fodder for rich story telling. I wouldn't mind seeing Ciassical themes with "Italian" Weird War subjects, and of course, being of Hungarian blood on my father's side, I can see a great deal of potential in Eastern European folklore.

It would probably behoove me to point out, also, that Zombies in traditional pulp are usually the "thinking kind", not the Romero-esque shamblers, which is a hell of a lot more frightening, in my opinion. But again, it is only that, an opinion.



-Doc

[Helen]

I've forgotten the name of the movie on DVD that Michael loaned me, but it was a British unit caught up in the Great War losing most of their unit. They are in a captured position and suddenly they start seeing the dead etc.

I'll ask Michael the name of the movie and let you all know, but I'm sure someone will know on this forum.

Oh I did find out that one particular unit from the French dismounted cavalry had on their flag none other than Saint George the Dragon.

Helen

[Plynkes]

Sorry Doc, no insinuation was aimed at you personally. I was speaking in the most general of terms. We had slightly hijacked the thread and it had wandered off away from your original point. Not very responsible of us, especially as all three of us that did it are supposed to be moderators around here.

I do apologise.

Helen, was the picture you were thinking of Deathwatch?

[Doc Twilight]

No worries:)

But as I said, I understand your feelings on the matter, and agree with them, for the most part!

-Doc

[scarabminiatures]

Don't apologise folks, either carry this thread on or start another topic, having been away for a couple of days it made interesting reading 

If I had more time than I have right now, I would chip in with my own thoughts, but currently i am slightly distracted by some of aircavs notes..

And anyway, leaving to the luminaries  seems a super idea 

[BaronVonJ]

I always liked the Arrowsmith comic version of WW1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowsmith_(comics)

[Helen]

Sorry Doc, no insinuation was aimed at you personally. I was speaking in the most general of terms. We had slightly hijacked the thread and it had wandered off away from your original point. Not very responsible of us, especially as all three of us that did it are supposed to be moderators around here.

I do apologise.

Helen, was the picture you were thinking of Deathwatch?

Thanks Dylan, that's the movie.

Yes I do admit a we bit off target with the subject - so apoligises from me in particular, an if folks feel strongly I'll make a sticky topic on the subject for folks who have an interest. If it proves popular I'm sure we can arrange through Alex something else.

So Doc if you want to start a subject please feel free and we will see how it goes. As Robb from Scarb has mentioned, he is looking into this genre with miniatures.

Helen

[xeoran]

Ah, Deathwatch. Fun flick.

I actually think WW1 has great potential for (horror) weirdness, and not just on the Western Front.

The Western Front has a pitch-perfect setting: the narrow confines of the trench, replete with all the dangers from booby traps, wire, sucking mud and half collapsed dugouts. The abandoned trenches that lead nowhere. The trenches filled only with the dead. And the brutal medieval nature of trench raiders. The cloying gas that obscures vision. Into that you can fit all kinds of crazy, not just the old mythological stuff but the weirder nature of industrial war. I seem to remember a story/myth about cannibals living in abandoned pill-boxes and trenches in No Mans Land. A mix of deserters and the mad, led by an Australian Sergeant who ate his victims. A rich skein of industrial horror, from sentient barbed wire to living breathing shell holes. Imagine sappers digging a mine who accidentally stumble on an ancient burial, a plague pit or something worse. A Prussian officer, a Burschenshlafter (in full duelling rig) fencing against unfathomable horrors. A Scottish ghillie hunting what he thinks is a German sniper but turns out to be much much worse. That sort of thing could be quite fun. I think you could make a pretty excellent Space Hulk conversion out of it.

The Alpine Front has much the same, except with jagged peaks and untravelled mountains. I remember seeing a picture of the Company of Death and thinking they looked like something from a horror movie. It wouldn't be hard to convert over.

The African Front has a wide vein of British literature to draw on, from King Solomon's Mines to She, where Witch Doctors wander amongst the Veldt and white men discover hideous things no civilised man was meant to know...With such wide open spaces there is plenty of room for creativity and I don't think I've ever seen a Weird War game that drew on the rich vein of African mythology and legend. Plenty there to plunder for inspiration.

And then you can break into the neutral areas. Rather like that Tom Stoppard play, imagine a game set in Switzerland in 1915, with spies set against each other, fighting a Dada-ist Lovecraftian horror that threatens to engulf the world. Imagine having Lenin help you fight it!

And so on, from Lawrence of Arabia tomb-hunting in Mesopotamia to Rommel discovering a hidden valley in the Alps full of very strange things. Add the previously mentioned period legends and there's an awful lot already. Who knows what lurks in the Great War?

On another level there is alternate history. Assume the Ludendorff offensive never took place (therefore not bleeding the German army out and postponing defeat) and that Plan 1919 takes place. Suddenly you get to play with Mark IX APC's, the Mark VIII and VI tanks, the Gun Carrier MkI etc. The RCW begins early with both Allies and now the Central Powers involved (Austrian Jaegers in Siberia FTW!). Not to mention that if the Austrians crumble in the Alps then the Allies are straight through into the underbelly of Germany with nobody to halt them...

(Wouldn't it be easier to just rename the Weird War Two board as the Weird War board? That way it could accommodate all the weird or alternate history stuff.)