Vendel Era/Pre-Viking Scandinavians?

[Byrthnoth]

Hi all, I'm planning to put together a few warbands for Saga based on the earlier, more legendary Norse sagas depicting events from the 6th and 7th centuries -- the Ynglinga Saga, Hrolf Kraki's Saga, etc. Beowulf as well.

Does anyone know of any good resources on 6-8th century Scandinavian warfare? Obviously the historical record is pretty thin in terms of primary sources, but it does seem like the archaeological side of things is maybe better-preserved than the Viking period in some respects, especially helmets.
A couple of the Viking-related Osprey titles have one or two plates and a little text about pre-Viking Scandinavians, but I was hoping for something a little more in-depth if it exists. I assume most histories of the Vikings will have an early chapter on the Vendel period before getting to the 'good stuff'.

In terms of miniatures I'm not aware of any specific Vendel-period figures, but I feel like a combination of using early/mid Saxon figures from Gripping Beast, Warlord (Colin Patten) and possibly Footsore, along with converted Viking figures, should get me pretty close.

[fastolfrus]

Stavanger museum has some good resources but not sure what they might have online.

Didn't Foundry do some Vendel era figures at one time?

[Atheling]

I'm not aware of Foundry ever doing such a range. Certainly their are some old Citadel "Vendel Age" Norse but they might be a bit stumpy.

Gripping Beast are your friend in this matter.....

From their Early Germanic Range:
https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/Saxon_German_Tribes_6th_7th_Centuries--category--87.html






There's more- check out the link above.....

[Byrthnoth]

Atheling, I was planning to use the GB 6th/7th C. 'Germanics' as the core of my warbands along with the Warlord early Saxons, with other Colin Patten sculpts sprinkled in. I'm going to include a decent number of mounted warriors as well – the sagas mention a certain amount of mounted fighting during this time, and Jordanes apparently wrote that the Swedes were good horsemen. I think the Warlord Arthurian cavalry, with some head swaps, would be good candidates alongside the Gripping Beast Germanic cavalry.

Fastolfrus, the Stavanger Museum doesn't seem to have much online, but I will put in on my list for next time I'm in Norway (which will.... probably not be soon, but you never know).

[Atheling]

Atheling, I was planning to use the GB 6th/7th C. 'Germanics' as the core of my warbands along with the Warlord early Saxons, with other Colin Patten sculpts sprinkled in. I'm going to include a decent number of mounted warriors as well – the sagas mention a certain amount of mounted fighting during this time, and Jordanes apparently wrote that the Swedes were good horsemen. I think the Warlord Arthurian cavalry, with some head swaps, would be good candidates alongside the Gripping Beast Germanic cavalry.

Good idea. The Gripping Beast and Warlord (they were formerly Saxon miniatures) are both sculpted by Colin Patten so will fit together very well with the exception of the horses. A decision of which company you prefer will be one that will, probably have to be taken. I used to paint for Gripping beast and I can tell you that the Colin Patten sculpts paint up exceptionally well.

[pallard]

Hi Byrthnoth
I would highly recommend Michael P. Speidel's Ancient Germanic Warriors. Absolutely fundamental for everything German. And he shows that instead of influences going from north to south, with the migrations of the Scandinavian tribes, it often was the contrary, for instance Alamannic influences on the Vendel culture.
You may also check if this french book has been translated: Vincent Samson, Les Berserkir, les guerriers-fauves dans la Scandinavie ancienne de Vendel aux Vikings ( VIe-XIe siècle). Presses Universitaires du Septentrion, 2011. A very detailed study.
Philippe

[pallard]

And I just checked and yes! Yggdrasill has been translated from french into english. This is a magnificent RPG just on your spot: the Vendel age in Scandinavia. Have a look!
Philippe

[Byrthnoth]

Thanks for all the recommendations, pallard. Does Yggsdrasil have much to offer someone who isn't planning to play the RPG? From looking at a couple of reviews, it seems that there is a background/setting section to the book, but I don't have a sense of how detailed it is.

The Speidel book is quite pricy but I've downloaded a kindle sample to see how it is. Looks like the Samson book hasn't been translated into English yet and my high school French isn't up to the task of deciphering an academic text.

Atheling, you've convinced me to pull the trigger on the Gripping Beast figures — also the fact that shipping to Canada has dropped from the old 25% of the order to free for orders over 50 pounds (and spending 50 pounds is always very easy to do...)

[Atheling]

Atheling, you've convinced me to pull the trigger on the Gripping Beast figures — also the fact that shipping to Canada has dropped from the old 25% of the order to free for orders over 50 pounds (and spending 50 pounds is always very easy to do...)

Glad to hear it and I look forward to seeing the end results here on LAF

[Dr. Zombie]

For historical evidence check out the Illerup finds. I am not sure how much you can find in english but here is a bit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illerup_%C3%85dal
https://sciencenordic.com/anthropology-archaeology-denmark/an-entire-army-sacrificed-in-a-bog/1375773
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alken-enge-danish-bog-remains_n_1776654?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEXDG7W0XINmPR_JFg6z1KH_yQfdIyCIpTzenLIpPB5grVZns2H1JGHtpKYW0gDBW_2Yxh53XGoX5s2CmGPZxBgWCabJJYo1uHYhv5VyXNzynkphqtd6Yoq66pWq90D712tc56xFHE3BfD_Jj55IQIwVnJVrm1OFCtYosk2X_ukC

It is the remains of beaten pre viking germanic armies found sacrificed in a bog i Jutland. It gives a very good impression of the equipment used. There is next to no armour. It seems that everyone had spears and/or javelins and a knife. Some had swords, few had fancy swords. A lot of the swords have roman makers marks.

[Atheling]

This could possibly be useful:
The Scandinavians from the Vendel Period to the Tenth Century: An Ethnographic Perspective

[pallard]

Byrthnoth
I have a project of using the RPG background with Blood Eagle skirmish rules.
Here are some of the chapters in the main Yggdrasill book:
The northern gods explained; the Scandia detailed: Danemark, Svithjodh, Norway, Gautar kingdom, Finn territory, Saxons, Angles and Jutes; civilisation : social organisation, hero theme, furor, destiny, Magic: Seydr, Galdr and Runes. These are the points of interest for a wargamer in my opinion.
Philippe

[Byrthnoth]

Dr Zombie - Illerup Ådal is interesting as it’s a few hundred years earlier than the period I’m looking at. The lack of protective equipment deposited, other than shields, might be a reflection of the equipment carried by the dead army, or it could be that armour wasn’t a component of this type of sacrifice. Assuming helmets and armour were incredibly rare, it’s hard to know how things may have changed by the 5th and 6th centuries — the Iilerup deposits date before the mass scale of barbarians serving in the empire that happened later on, which presumably meant a transfer of wealth back to the homeland, along with weapons and armour

Atheling, I flagged that book the other day - it runs all the way through to the tenth century and based on the table of contents it’s only got one section on warfare. It looks interesting, but it’s not a ‘must read’ just yet.

Pallard, I’ve been noting all the instances of witchcraft/magic in the early sagas as I’ve been rereading them, so a more comprehensive overview of Norse pagan magic might be helpful. I’ve also grabbed a sample of Neil Price’s The Viking Way: Magic and Mind in Late Iron Age Scandinavia But I haven’t dug into it yet.

[Atheling]

Dr Zombie - Illerup Ådal is interesting as it’s a few hundred years earlier than the period I’m looking at. The lack of protective equipment deposited, other than shields, might be a reflection of the equipment carried by the dead army, or it could be that armour wasn’t a component of this type of sacrifice. Assuming helmets and armour were incredibly rare, it’s hard to know how things may have changed by the 5th and 6th centuries — the Iilerup deposits date before the mass scale of barbarians serving in the empire that happened later on, which presumably meant a transfer of wealth back to the homeland, along with weapons and armour

Atheling, I flagged that book the other day - it runs all the way through to the tenth century and based on the table of contents it’s only got one section on warfare. It looks interesting, but it’s not a ‘must read’ just yet.

Pallard, I’ve been noting all the instances of witchcraft/magic in the early sagas as I’ve been rereading them, so a more comprehensive overview of Norse pagan magic might be helpful. I’ve also grabbed a sample of Neil Price’s The Viking Way: Magic and Mind in Late Iron Age Scandinavia But I haven’t dug into it yet.

Sounds very much like you're heading in the right direction and getting stuck into it all.

The best of luck with this project and remember, it would be remiss of you not to post the results here on LAF

[Byrthnoth]

The best of luck with this project and remember, it would be remiss of you not to post the results here on LAF

While I wait for my order from Gripping Beast I have some Saxon Miniatures vikings in the lead pile — at least half shouldn't need any conversion work to bring them 'back in time', so I'll get started on them right away and hopefully have something painted to show in the next week or two. Watch this space!