Are the Perrys to blame?

[pixelgeek]

So are the Perrys to blame for all the games that use ranks of 6 models or was that a standard before them?

[Jemima Fawr]

Ranks of six models?   

Whatyoutalkinbout Willis?

[pixelgeek]

Ranks of six models?   

Whatyoutalkinbout Willis?

Lion Rampant. Billhooks

[SotF]

I think the 6 models thing comes from a frontage thing.

5 models with a 25mm base has the same basic frontage as 6 models on 20mm bases with a lipped movement tray, and with some minis, it's easy to fit them on the smaller base.

[N.C.S.E]

I must be playing in an entirely different world. Being firmly in Lard country, ranks of 4 28mm figures is the standard.

[Codsticker]

I always thought the standard for Medieval and Ancients rank and file games was 3 ranks of 8.

[v_lazy_dragon]

Probably too many years playing WHFB in my youth, but I always think of blocks of men as 5 wide (command +2) by 4 deep

[TWD]

12 models  to a "unit" (Rampant, Billhooks) is relatively recent and feels like more to do with reduced model counts in modern systems (12 models would be barely a tiny unit of skirmishers to the likes of Grant and Featherstone) and the fact that 12 is divisible by 2,3,4 and 6 rather than just 2 and 5 for a ten man unit allowing a little greater flexibility in formations, casualties and other "gaming" factors.

At a larger scale 24, 32 or 36 man units in Napoleonics make it easier to model flank companies, columns and the like than 15 or 25 man units.

In WFB ranks were always five wide until 7th edition (2006 ish) so before then WFB units were mostly 20 or 25.

The contents of plastic boxed sets are more a function if what can fit on to a sprue than any fixed notion of ideal unit size.

[Jemima Fawr]

Billhooks

How rude! 

I've never played either of those rulesets, but 'back in the day' when I started wargaming in the 80s, every 'massed battle' ruleset of my experience was set at a 1:50 ratio, so Napoleonic battalions (by way of example) were typically 12 (600 men) or 16 figures (800 men), a Macedonian Chiliarchy was 20 figures (1,000 men), etc, etc.  This 'Grand Manner' 1:20 stuff was something we only saw in the magazines.  My SYW armies are organised in 12 or 16-figure units and are organised for 'Shako' which was released before Perry Miniatures existed. 

So it's nothing new.  And I'm still none the wiser as to what Perry Miniatures have to do with the price of fish.

[Hobgoblin]

In WFB ranks were always five wide until 7th edition (2006 ish) so before then WFB units were mostly 20 or 25.

If memory serves, four was the optimum in the early editions, as that got you the bonus for subsequent ranks and allowed you to get more of them (and to keep the full bonus - four ranks, I think - as the unit was depleted).

[TWD]

If memory serves, four was the optimum in the early editions, as that got you the bonus for subsequent ranks and allowed you to get more of them (and to keep the full bonus - four ranks, I think - as the unit was depleted).

You are quite correct I'm misremembering. 7th went from four to five.
I think that led to six being default/optimal so you got an extra attack against five wide...

[TWD]

And I'm still none the wiser as to what Perry Miniatures have to do with the price of fish.

I think the OP was speculating that because Perry sets are in multiples of six, that had driven the multiples of six unit sizes.
Which cheerfully ignores the fact that many (most?) Perry plastic infantry sets are not actually in multiples of six.

[pixelgeek]

I think the OP was speculating that because Perry sets are in multiples of six, that had driven the multiples of six unit sizes.
Which cheerfully ignores the fact that many (most?) Perry plastic infantry sets are not actually in multiples of six.

Actually quite a few of the Perry plastic sets have miniatures in factors of 6. A box might have 40 minis but it breaks down into troops that are factors of 6.

But I was actually looking at their metal figs initially.

This whole thing started with me trying to figure out why Lion Rampant has a rank size of six and then I noticed it in Billhooks as well. Coming from the fantasy side of games where five is typically the usual number due, I suspect, to the influence of Wrahammer, I thought it was a bit unusual and might be impacted by the number of minis you get in packs of figures.

[fred]

I think GW is the only company that has been able to control the rules and figure production that closely that the two are in step.

Perry metal figures were in 6s long before Lion Rampant was on the scene. I wasn’t even aware units were in ranks in LR, I thought they were just blobs of 12 figures - but I haven’t played LR much at all.

I mainly play in small scales, so think of number of bases to a unit, not number of figures, by default.

[Mammoth miniatures]

I always assumed it was because the writers worked in imperial and are more used to dividing things by 6.