Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): What's the situation for customers and traders?

[Antonio J Carrasco]

The option of using the IOSS system for orders under 150€, on the other hand, will just put money into the hands of EU financial representatives that non-EU businesses will have to appoint to avoid having their customers pay tax and handling fees on import. So, into the hands of greedy mercenaries! Plus tax will still go to the state. :-)

It is even worse than I imagined. 

I wonder how public servants do not realize how much they are hurting businesses and customers with their pettiness and greed. It is like watching a disaster in slow motion.

[SiamTiger]

Amusing how the UK leaving a shared market is now a trick by the EU to put money in the hands of their people...

[OSHIROmodels]

Let’s keep the politics out of it chaps and just have relevant info 

[Mammoth miniatures]

A small announcement that just came up on facebook, from Old-school miniatures.

"I hate to do this but after 1st of July we won’t be accepting orders from EU countries while we try and work out VAT rules. So if you are EU based the only way to get our stuff will be from our EBay store.
Stupid Brexit!"

So that's another company limiting sales to the EU for the time being.

[Fighting15s]

A small announcement that just came up on facebook, from Old-school miniatures.

"I hate to do this but after 1st of July we won’t be accepting orders from EU countries while we try and work out VAT rules. So if you are EU based the only way to get our stuff will be from our EBay store.
Stupid Brexit!"

So that's another company limiting sales to the EU for the time being.

As Mike and Andrew pointed out earlier with regard to Flags of War, such action is completely unnecessary. Any parcel regardless of size posted to the EU, from the UK or otherwise, will use the existing process for the customer's country's mail service, collecting VAT on import and charging a handling fee. I for one will continue posting orders to the EU as I have been since 1 January, with barcoded customs forms.

The EU's incoming IOSS system from 1 July, which allows a non-EU business to prepay VAT and avoid a charge on import for items under 150euros, is completely optional. As I flippantly pointed out above (accidentally risking encouraging political wrath), it is too expensive for small businesses to use because it currently requires them to appoint an EU fiscal representative to cover their VAT liability.

There are options of putting orders through the online marketplaces (eBay, Amazon, Etsy), which are supposed to collect the VAT for the customer's country, but again there are charges for doing so. Amazon appears to have completely sidestepped the new law so far by requiring UK sellers to arrange duty paid delivery to the EU rather than handling the duty itself (sellers cannot make additional charges; the price the buyer sees is what the buyer pays). Duty paid delivery is expensive because the courier charges the seller the VAT and handling fee, which obviously gets passed onto the customer through the selling price. If the vendor sells direct, rather than through a marketplace, and arranges duty paid delivery, my general observation is that they get unfairly pilloried by customers for high delivery charges (e.g. Warlord Games).

I have reservations about the legitimacy of using Etsy, which is supposed to be for handmade items. I know there are resin-printed models on there, but they're not by any stretch of the imagination handmade or craft items, and spin-cast metal items certainly aren't. I can foresee Etsy tightening up what can be sold through its site, especially if it is bearing the responsibility for collecting import VAT.

[Andrew Rae]

'Handmade' on Etsy doesn't mean literally handmade.

Handmade items are items that are made and/or designed by you, the seller.

As I sculpt all my products, I designed them. That might not apply to all miniatures sellers.

[Fighting15s]

'Handmade' on Etsy doesn't mean literally handmade.

As I sculpt all my products, I designed them. That might not apply to all miniatures sellers.

Yes, but "Regardless, makers must be creating their items with their own hands (or tools)". Once you start machine producing them, potentially in quantity, that's mass production. Is a casting machine a tool? Does that fit in with Etsy? I'm just uneasy, and therefore I wouldn't want to rely on Etsy as a route to the EU for spin-cast miniatures.

I realise yours are somewhat quirkier figures than mine :-) and they probably sell in different quantities: individuals not armies.

[Andrew Rae]

This is from the production partners section:

Examples of production services include, but are not limited to, printing, apparel printing, 3D-printing, casting, plating, engraving, cutting and sewing, and finishing.

Even if someone else was doing the casting, my items would still count as 'handmade' because I designed them. I would have to include the production partner details on my page. I'll likely add the print bureau and master-mould makers/master casters who did the work prior to production. Could be argued they don't count as a 'production partner' as they don't have anything to do with the actual production items, but better safe than sorry.

But going forward, anything new I make I'll have designed, printed, master moulded, master cast, production moulded and production cast myself, so I think I'm safe.

[Mammoth miniatures]

Honestly Etsy is full of people reselling junk, Or using pre bought moulds to make resin tat - A good selection of nicely cast miniatures would actually drag it back closer to what it was meant to be.

My main issue with etsy is from the seller side - the fees they charge and cuts they take are frankly ludicrous. I have no plans to stop selling to the EU, But even if i did I'd not use etsy.

[Andrew Rae]

It’s very far from ideal, but it’s a means to an end only. The is no affordable alternative for what I want other than eBay, and I’d rather not. Blue park isn’t even going to integrate Taxamo, so that’s out too.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

So far I am aware of two manufacturers that have stopped selling to the EU, temporarily, due to the issues derived from using IOSS.
Do you know other manufacturers that will stop selling to the EU for the moment? And those who will continue selling normally?

We can make a guidelist, for the present.

At June 30th, that I am aware of.

Will stop selling, temporarily:

Flags of War
Footsore Miniatures (though you can write them and figure it something else)

[black hat miniatures]

I am continuing to sell without IOSS - just removing VAT for European orders as before and I imagine that most small manufacturers will continue as before until a simple easy to integrate IOSS solution appears that doesn't cost a fortune to use or implement.

Mike

[Antonio J Carrasco]

I am continuing to sell without IOSS - just removing VAT for European orders as before and I imagine that most small manufacturers will continue as before until a simple easy to integrate IOSS solution appears that doesn't cost a fortune to use or implement.

Mike

Thanks Mike

I updated the post above.

Why is it so expensive implement IOSS? It should be very simple.

[Andrew Rae]

I'll be selling to EU customers (and Norway customers too) through Etsy from tomorrow. Pretty sure I mentioned that above... Etsy will collect EU VAT at checkout, and there won't be any handling fees from the postie before delivery.

https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/StatuesqueMiniatures

The reason IOSS is so expensive is because the VAT cooperation agreement between the EU and UK isn't a sufficient scope to allow UK businesses to directly register with the IOSS - either that or it isn't completed yet.

Registration must be made through an EU-based 'Intermediary', who is liable for unpaid VAT. This is expensive, though there are some cheaper intermediaries appearing, who may or may not be reliable. This applies to businesses from all countries except Norway, who do have a VAT agreement of suitable scope.

[Andrew Rae]

BTW, it might get rather time consuming listing businesses who will continue selling to the EU, as the answer will be 'most of them'.

It might be better to list those businesses who have implemented some solution to allow EU customers to pay VAT when they make the purchase, rather than pay VAT and a handling fee after a bill from the postal service.

There will be many ways businesses can do this*, not just IOSS registration, but the main thing will be avoiding the dreaded handling fees and paying all costs at once. This applies to all non-EU businesses, of course, not just UK ones.

*IOSS registration; DDP shipping; selling through a marketplace like Ebay or Etsy; integrating fancy things  into your checkout process... What matters is EU customers see and pay EU VAT at checkout and don't get hit with a handling fee.