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Author Topic: 3D Printing, wot's it all about?  (Read 2436 times)

Offline Vis Bellica

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 266
    • Vis Lardica
Re: 3D Printing, wot's it all about?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2022, 08:56:35 AM »
I haven't got a 3D printer myself, but use Syborg 3D to fill in the more esoteric gaps in my collections i.e. vehicles that aren't readily available elsewhere.

I game WW2 in 15mm, and there's a distinct shortage of decent "tail" models out there. Plenty of "teeth" (I'm sure that all the model Sturmtigers out there actually have more volume than any one of the nineteen they actually built!) but not so good for transport and support.

Have a look at how I motorised my Poles:

https://www.vislardica.com/blog/2022/1/23/motorising-a-polish-infantry-company

Including some FIAT 508/518 taczankas:



Yes, you can see lines on the bonnets and the sides but, at 15mm at any rate, that just adds a bit of character and depth to the model. At three foot away as you're playing, you don't notice anyway.

And take a look at these three tankers: one each for Brits, Soviets and USA:



Ready made objectives or battlefield scatter at a fraction of the price. Yes, I can see some lines in the photograph, but not whilst I'm playing and, anyway, as I said above, in 15mm at a normal distance, you can't see them.

Offline Mick_in_Switzerland

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  • Scatterbrained Genius
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  • Posts: 2382
Re: 3D Printing, wot's it all about?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2022, 10:43:38 AM »
I have an Anycubic Mono resin printer.
It takes some time to learn to use a resin printer but you can do amazing things with it.

I have an article in the current Military Miniature magazine - Printing Your Tanks at Home.
https://militaryminiature.com/product/military-miniature-201-individual-edition/

Here are some of my prints.

The Aliens Vs Humans Kickstarter was very successful and for a US$ 50 pledge, the 1,770 supporters got 150 sets of STL files to make figures, bases, vehicles, and scenery. The aliens and Humans are best printed in Tough Resin. The humans are 38mm tall and consumables cost US$ 0.17 each. The big alien costs US$ 1.25 for consumables.


This is part of my Build Something entry.
Wooden Crate by HeliconOne is free here. I resized to 20x10x8mm and printed 16 at a time.
These are hollow with 1mm thick walls.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3945435
Sandbags are by TabletopMinis. This set of STL files costs US$1.95. They have 4 different sets. I print these at 90%.
I will use printed sandbags for the bulk but hand make from Milliput for the top layer, damaged ones, corners, joints, etc.
https://www.tabletopminis.com/product/10157_Sand_Bags




The standing buffalo is a scan of a Thai statue. The second file is a scan of a real Taiwanese water buffalo lying down. These Water Buffalo models are very light and work out at about US$ 0.20 each in consumables. The STL files are free on the Thingiverse.
In Apocalypse Now, Kurtz's base is an ancient Cambodian Temple with these statues. The originals are in the Guimet Museum in Paris and STL files are available free. The Temple Lions at 65mm tall and the Naga Statue at 70mm tall. These are hollow and cost US$ 1.05 each in consumables.



M551 Sheridan tank in 1/50 scale. The files came from the from Bob Mackenzie Vietnam Kickstarter. This model cost US$ 16.04 in consumables.



LVTP-5 printed as a single hollow piece at 1/55 scale as that is the biggest that would fit on the Anycubic Photon Mono.
The model weights 216 grams and cost US$ 11.55 in consumables. Richard Marquis (on LAF) made the STL.


« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 12:43:22 PM by Mick_in_Switzerland »

Offline Ray Rivers

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5745
Re: 3D Printing, wot's it all about?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2022, 05:44:26 PM »
Nice post, Mick.

Very interesting.

Seems materials are still quite pricey. Perhaps as 3D printing becomes more wide spread, the price will come down.

Offline YPU

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4208
  • In glorious 3D!
Re: 3D Printing, wot's it all about?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2022, 05:52:30 PM »
Nice post, Mick.

Very interesting.

Seems materials are still quite pricey. Perhaps as 3D printing becomes more wide spread, the price will come down.

I'm not sure this is correct. compared to plastic prices sure, but 3d printing resin has tin beat with the current prices I believe?
3d designer, sculptor and printer, at your service!



3d files! (here)

Offline zrunelord

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1170
    • Picts from the Front
Re: 3D Printing, wot's it all about?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2022, 06:45:18 PM »
Interesting post .
As you say papsikels has some great minis & his KS are very worth it for what you pay.
Minis should be printed in resin to get the most detail.

You can also print the flat sides of that vehicle in Pla in order to keep prices down & the sloped parts with resin, then assembling it.

 Having said that I have seen people printing whole vehicles in Pla with great results but one must learn how to slice & orient them well to get the best results.
Z
« Last Edit: February 14, 2022, 07:11:33 AM by zrunelord »
http://castrarunis.blogspot.com/

Imagine & you can.
Most see shapes you must see possibilities.
Z

Offline Mick_in_Switzerland

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Re: 3D Printing, wot's it all about?
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2022, 06:57:39 PM »
@Ray Rivers

I don't understand why you think 3D resin prints are expensive

In terms of consumables, a 28mm figure costs about US$ 0.12 i.e. 12 cents.
White metal figures are currently about 1.75 each = US$ 2.38 each.
I would assume that at least half of that goes to the caster.
So by that logic, it costs US$ 1.20 to cast a white metal 28mm figure.
Based on normal manufacturing costings, probably 60% is for materials so the white metal in a figure is about 72 US cents = 6 times as much as printer resin.

As soon as 3D printers become reliable, it will cost five times as much to cast a metal figure as to 3D print one (including machine amortisation.)
And there are new 3D printers to be launched in 2022, such as the Hitry Rocket 1 which are 8 times as fast as current printers.

It will soon make business sense to 3D print rather than cast miniatures.


Offline Ray Rivers

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5745
Re: 3D Printing, wot's it all about?
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2022, 07:29:59 PM »
Hi Mick,

It's not the cost of the mini's I'm referring to. They are dirt cheap in comparison with metals and the detail... good lord!

I was referring to the larger vehicles. I would have thought they would be cheaper.

As an aside...

I see a future where every city has 3D manufacturers that build anything anyone could want to their own personal desires. As only the raw materials will need to be shipped, we will need only a fraction of the amount ships and trucks that we currently use. The future is bright! I won't see it, but it is coming quickly.

Offline Mick_in_Switzerland

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  • Posts: 2382
Re: 3D Printing, wot's it all about?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2022, 07:09:55 AM »
The cost of vehicles depends on the weight and the weight of supports.

STL files from Kickstarters often have a lot of supports which can weigh 50% of the model weight.
With practice, this can be reduced to 25% or less.

It is possible to hollow out models so that the walls are only 1.5 to 1.8mm thick.
That makes a big difference.

This is why the Sheridan (pre-supported Kickstarter file) cost US$ 16.04 in consumables but the much bigger, but hollow, LVT-P5 only cost $11.55.



Offline racm32

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 967
    • Wyndehurst Productions
Re: 3D Printing, wot's it all about?
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2022, 03:49:57 PM »
I have an FDM printer that is perfect for printing terrain. In fact I had to stop using it because I was printing stuff faster then I could paint it.
There is a learning curve to getting started but it didn't take long to get good consistent prints.

Here is the main advantage for me. I work full time in the USAF and have a family. My hobby time is very limited. That means I have to be pick what I want to spend my hobby time doing. The printer allows me to have terrain elements printing while I'm at work or spending quality time with family and then can spend hobby time painting. Without it I'd have to spend d that time using more traditional building methods which, while fun, are very time consuming.
Instagram: Wyndehurst_Productions
Blog: http://wyndehurstproductions.blogspot.co.uk/

Offline Shahbahraz

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1342
    • A Lead Odyssey
Re: 3D Printing, wot's it all about?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2022, 01:22:56 PM »
i have an older (now) Anycubic Photon S Resin printer. I don't create files myself, I download (or occasionally purchase) the basic STL files. It cost me around 170.

In the last year, I have printed off literally hundreds of 10mm AFV, probably 80 or so 15mm, and maybe 40+ 28mm vehicles. Add in 50 or so 1/144 WW1 aircraft, 30+ 1/300 naval vessels, and I am just starting to explore printing figures. If I had purchased everything I printed, it would be well in excess of 1500 minimum. In that time, I have used maybe 7 litres of resin. So for my approximately 250 - that's not bad. Would I have bought those instead of printing them? Probably not. :) 

I don't recognise the costs that people are incurring. I pay around 21 for a litre of resin, the Chitubox program tells me that printing something like a hollowed out 1/56 Jagdpanzer IV cost me about 2.50. Additional costs are alcohol to wash the models, and failed prints (thankfully now rare as I have supports and levelling the plate better sorted out).

At the moment, the limiting factors are time - it still takes a while to print stuff out - I printed off 2 x 1/56 scale Japanese Ha-Go and a crossley armoured car, and the print took nearly eight hours.

Quality of STL is also an issue in some cases. In 1/100 or 1/200 you can get virtually any WW2 AFV free from Thingiverse, and most will be decent quality. Finding decent 1/56 models that aren't just upscaled 1/100 is challenging. Similarly with infantry. Decent quality figures will cost you money, and in many cases the price differential between printing 6mm and 15mm with bought STL files and purchasing actual minis will be not as significant unless you are intending to field armies with large numbers of figures.

The final issue is layering - I usually print at 0.05 layers. In most cases this will give me a very good quality print, but some angles will show artefacts of the printing process in the form of very fine lines. Adjusting the angle of print in the software will often virtually eliminate this, but you have to redo the print. It's a judgement call. So if I was doing a T34 - and knowing I needed a few, it might well be worth it, but for one-offs, I will often accept it being slightly less than perfect.
Wargaming since the dark ages...

---https://aleadodyssey.blogspot.com/---

Offline Ray Rivers

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5745
Re: 3D Printing, wot's it all about?
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2022, 07:57:14 PM »
Well, I'm now 67 and my eyes are pretty shot. I had cataract surgery on both eyes and found out that I lost 30% of the vision in my left eye.

But if I was 20 or 30 years younger, especially in today's world, I would going full in on 3D printing for my minis.

 

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