Fighting Lead Rot

[Mister Frau Blucher]

My sincere thanks to everyone for their thoughts!

I took the figures out of the vinegar and scrubbed them with an old toothbrush in distilled water. Here is the blog post, with a few more photos:

https://swordsunderdistantsuns.com/2021/02/17/combating-lead-rot-part-deux/

Basically, there was some improvement, but not enough. The first photo below shows where the white dust is gone, but it is now clearly embedded in the tiny grooves that have corroded into her base. The second photo was of a Custom Cast Napoleonic that was in a job lot I bought, and it shows no improvement.

I tracked down the post from George RR Martin that Andrew and Cubs mentioned - thanks to you both! He uses a 50/50 mix of Turpentine and highly refined mineral oil. There are two types of mineral oil (according to my Google-Fu). The highly refined version, which also seems to be called white mineral oil, is actually safe for human consumption; it seems to be used on kitchen cutting boards as protectant/lubricant. I see that Amazon carries several brands.

On George's blog post, he swears by this treatment. So I think rather than repeat the vinegar process a half-dozen times in the hope of having success, I will get the stuff to make his mix and go from there. I am going to do a bit more research to make sure I am actually getting the highly refined stuff, but hopefully next week I will have a follow up to this, with news of resounding success!     

[Mister Frau Blucher]

I had absolutely no idea what lead rot was so went for a Google.

Found this which might be of interest/use.

Part 1 is long.

Part 2 is very long.



http://minismuseum.com/2015/12/27/lead-rot-cleaning-pt-1/

Wow, that's a great read! Thanks for finding that! With my luck, I would electrocute myself with that set-up...but if the Martin method fails, this will be next on my list!

Oddly enough, when I clicked on the Part 2 link, it took me back to Part 1. Seems like Part 2 is comprised of several videos?

[Mister Frau Blucher]

I re-read the Martin blog, and he specifies pure gum turpentine. Evidently, there are two kinds of terp - gum and wood. It seems that wood turpentine is the most common. So it might be more difficult to get this turpentine, though Amazon carries it, of course...

[Cubs]

I wouldn't be too strict about whether you use turps, white spirit, acetone or anything like that - I just used acetone because I had a load of it handy and it works a treat - I think the important thing is it's an alcohol.

[Mister Frau Blucher]

I wouldn't be too strict about whether you use turps, white spirit, acetone or anything like that - I just used acetone because I had a load of it handy and it works a treat - I think the important thing is it's an alcohol.

I think you're right here, Cubs. But I am going to try using the exact things Martin says his restorer specified. The reason is because I have thousands of figures all made from 75-85, many unpainted and unprimed (that I still have hopes of one day getting painted up), so they are particularly vulnerable to rot. I think it will be worth the 30-40 dollar investment if I can stop it dead in its tracks, and not have to worry about it when I encounter it again.

All that being said, that electrolysis process that Spinal Tap found seems to be the best and most thorough. That would be more difficult for me to set up than the blog author suggests, but the results are fantastic. If this formula doesn't work, I will have to give that a go.

[Tactalvanic]

Some nice blog posts and mr Martin's own have some nice links some even still work

http://web.archive.org/web/20041103013246/http://www.xmission.com/~macgill/reference/preservation.html

and this gem

http://docshare01.docshare.tips/files/25181/251812731.pdf

Which leads (sorry) to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_carbonate

Good luck and look forward to reading about your results 

[Cubs]

But I am going to try using the exact things Martin says his restorer specified.

Can't fault you, bud. I only used acetone because I had it in a tub and I'm tight as a gnat's chuff with money.

[vexillia]

Firstly, no one has mentioned that the bloom known as "lead rot" is also known as white lead and is very toxic.  Generating any dust, by scrapping dry  figures, is not recommended.  Use separate, and if possible disposable, tools and cover your work area with newspaper or similar and dispose of the used covers & tools promptly.

Here's some chemistry for you:

In the presence of oxygen, water and carbon dioxide metallic lead will be oxidised and converted to lead carbonate. The rate at which this happens is normally very slow; after all lead is well known to be a relatively stable, and unreactive metal.  However acetic acid acts as a catalyst greatly increasing the speed with which the reaction proceeds. 

In all, lead rot occurs in three stages:

• A layer of lead oxide forms on the surface of the metal as the metallic lead reacts with oxygen in the air.  Under normal circumstance the reaction stops here.
• In the presence of acetic acid and water, the layer of lead oxide reacts quickly to form lead acetate.
• Finally, the lead acetate reacts further with carbon dioxide to form lead carbonate releasing acetic acid and water in the process.

Overall the reactions above result in the metallic lead eating away at itself and your miniature disappearing before your eyes.  It is however not all bad news.  For lead to rot you need a source of oxygen, water, carbon dioxide and acetic acid. 

Of these four compounds acetic acid is the most important as it significantly increases the rate at which the lead will rot at room temperature and only a very small amount is required as it is not present in the final lead carbonate.

Under normal circumstances the amount of carbon dioxide required will limit the extent of decay.  Carbon dioxide only represents about 0.0387% by volume of the Earth’s atmosphere; so not a lot really.

The main problem occurs when the miniature is stored in something that will supply water, acetic acid and carbon dioxide, like a cardboard or wooden box.  The slow breakdown of the wood or wood pulp will release carbon dioxide and water; as well as a small amount of acetic acid. Suddenly we have three components of the mix and the air around us provides the fourth, oxygen, in abundance.

Because of this I have never understood the advice to wash figures in acetic acid (vinegar).  Warm, soapy water would be much better.

Link to previous thread on the topic.

[Mister Frau Blucher]

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in!

The overnight soaking I did in the vinegar has made things worse! Once the figures dried, it was clear there was more rot. I included 2 pictures below. This is as science suggests, as others on this thread have pointed out. Not sure where the whole soak your lead rotting figs in vinegar started, but it is common on the web and comes up abundantly in google searches. Lots more bloom on the cleric and space-dude than when I started the vinegar thing.

Tactalvanic - thanks for those links! While I am waiting for my turps and oil to arrive, I am going to soak the figures for a couple of nights in the baking soda and water treatment, as suggested in your second link. That should hopefully arrest the process I hastened with vinegar!

vexillia - thanks for bringing up the safety aspect. I have been lax all my life about that, and it is dumb. Lead is toxic. In the pic below, taken yesterday, I am holding the figs with bare hands. Headed off to Home Depot right now to get some disposable gloves and facemasks. Your post also got me researching lead removal soaps, as most sites say standard soap is not good enough. Looks like D-lead is a good brand, and it is available at some retailers, mostly online, including Amazon. I'll see if Home Depot has any, or any other brand, while I'm there.

Man, I think of all the early years in this hobby when I was a teenager, playing with my unpainted lead figures, and going straight to dinner, never washing my hands or taking any precaution...

[Mister Frau Blucher]

OK, I got the figures I am treating in this initial trial run all soaking in a baking soda and water solution, as suggested independently by Tactalvanic here and my Mom when when reading my posts (thanks, Mom!). There was no formula, so I used a tablespoon for a 12 ounce mug. Hopefully that will arrest the damage acceleration caused by my vinegar excursion. I'll leave it in until Monday or so, then scrub them in anticipation of the Mack-daddy treatment of turps/mineral oil, which should arrive Wednesday.

I did got to Home Depot and get disposable gloves and masks. From here on out, I am taking lead seriously. Maybe my single-digit IQ came from lead exposure, or maybe it was genetics, or maybe it was public schooling; at either rate, I can be a cautionary tale for future generations of lead enthusiasts!

I also got a wire brush. I don't think the old toothbrush has enough attack. Since the lead damage is irreversible, and I want to make sure the bloom is gone, I am going to be aggressive. I got a 3-pack, so I'll throw out the one I use on these figs.

Also, I need to get a good soap. Regular soap is not strong enough to get rid of lead on your skin. D-lead seems to be a prominent brand. It was not at HD, but it is on Amazon. Walmart has D-lead wipes; not sure which way I'll go at this point, but I'll update here.

I did a blog post on this with a bit more info, but the essential stuff is in this here post.

A couple of pix. The first is an action! photo with the baking soda and water. The second is the exact mask and glove combo I got at HD.

 

[Cubs]

NOOO!! Not with a wire brush, that will shred your mins to bits because the metal is too soft to survive that, especially if they're already a little fragile with the first stages of lead rot. The toothbrush is fine, trust me, just scrub firmly.

[Mister Frau Blucher]

NOOO!! Not with a wire brush, that will shred your mins to bits because the metal is too soft to survive that, especially if they're already a little fragile with the first stages of lead rot. The toothbrush is fine, trust me, just scrub firmly.

I am reluctant to use the wire brush, no doubt, despite people online insisting that you should, since the damage is done. These were probably the same ones who said to use vinegar...

Cool, I will hold off on the wire brush usage. I'll stick with the tooth brush.

[Andrew_McGuire]

Cool, I will hold off on the wire brush usage. I'll stick with the tooth brush.

Whatever you do, don’t mix them up. It’s murder on your gums.

[Mister Frau Blucher]

Whatever you do, don’t mix them up. It’s murder on your gums.

 

I'd better label them!

[Mister Frau Blucher]

Right! My turps and mineral oil arrived, so I took the figures out of the baking soda solution and scrubbed them. They were looking good at first after that treatment, but as they dried, the bloom returned. See the wet and dry pix below.

So the baking soda option does not seem to be strong. Maybe with repeated applications? But we're moving on to the (hopefully) big guns.

I put up a post on my blog with a lot more pictures:

https://swordsunderdistantsuns.com/2021/02/23/combating-lead-rot-part-5/

But the essential information is this: I did a 50/50 mixture (eyeballed, not precisely measured) of the pure gum turps and white mineral oil (see pic below for exact brands). And I am soaking the figures in that for a day or two. The Martin blog says to apply with a cotton swab and scrub, but this seems to be for larger, painted lead knight collectibles where you are doing spot repairs. Since this situation is different, I am going to soak, and then scrub, flush with water, scrub again.

Hope this does it!