Has there ever been a case of infantry attacking cavalry?

[mmcv]

I'm thinking particularly in the ancient/medieval sphere of things since guns change the equation somewhat. I'm trying to think if I've ever come across an account of formed infantry charging cavalry successfully (i.e. without the cavalry just running away).

Certainly cavalry have charged infantry then other infantry joined the fight when the horse were bogged down, but a unit of cavalry being charged by infantry doesn't make a lot of sense.

Light infantry and skirmishers and the like may harass cavalry, but I'm thinking actual formed medium/heavy infantry.

The other thing is cavalry on cavalry combat usually degenerated into a swirling mass of horseflesh and steel. I can't see any infantry unit wading into that mess where it would be as likely you'd get mauled by your allies horses as your enemies.

Yet many wargaming rules allow such behaviour as a matter of course.

Pondering my own homebrew Crusades rules and was something that came to mind given the numerous cavalry actions in the region. I think infantry should be able to advance on cavalry to drive them back but not actually engage them unless cornered by impassible terrain or the like.

[Charlie_]

Interesting question.
Perhaps in your rules cavalry should automatically fall back /evade when charged by infantry, either in good order, or testing to avoid disorder, something like that. If they can't fall back, automatic disorder.

[mmcv]

Yeah that's my thinking, auto evade unless against impassible terrain then engaged at disadvantage. And also just outright preventing infantry from joining an all cavalry engagement.

[Diablo Jon]

Battle of Morgarten 1315? A mostly mounted Imperialist army was ambushed, in rough terrain, by the Swiss. The Swiss where the ambushers and charged the imperialist cavalry. Of course it did require rough Alpine terrain and a prepared ambush rather than an open field battle. In open terrain cavalry are unlikely to stand there and get charged by slow moving infantry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Morgarten

[Diablo Jon]

I suppose Hastings might count some sections of the Anglo Danish army left the shield wall to charge what they thought were retreating Cavalry. Again though it was a very particular set of circumstances.

[mmcv]

Yeah my thinking is well ordered cavalry will be able to auto evade unless a situation like Morgarten where they're driven to the impassible terrain and cut down. Possibly close formed cavalry in disorder may have to test to evade. I think I'll probably make it easier for for cavalry to extract from melee than infantry too as if the initial assault doesn't finish things there's a tendency to pull back and try again with a charge. Sustained combat from horseback in an infantry formation is a recipe for disaster!

[Diablo Jon]

Yeah my thinking is well ordered cavalry will be able to auto evade unless a situation like Morgarten where they're driven to the impassible terrain and cut down. Possibly close formed cavalry in disorder may have to test to evade. I think I'll probably make it easier for for cavalry to extract from melee than infantry too as if the initial assault doesn't finish things there's a tendency to pull back and try again with a charge. Sustained combat from horseback in an infantry formation is a recipe for disaster!

All sounds reasonable to me. Hastings is a good example, again, of your last point the Norman cavalry spent a large part of the battle attacking and retiring because they couldn't make much impact on a solid body of infantry.

[mmcv]

I'm considering just combining all that into a harassment mechanic, where cavalry close to infantry are assumed to be harassing them without having to play it out until there's an actual full charge to resolve.

Taking some inspiration from the Twilight of.. series to abstract some of these things into simple resolve tests, though still having a separate process for resolving melees.

[Wellington]

Sorry for the lack of more details ...

As far I'm remember there was a battle during the Second Baron's War were Infantry, hidden in the woods, ambushed a cavalry unit. And during a battle between Caesar and Pompeius light infantry, hidden behind cavalry, charged the disorganized Pompejan left flank cavalry.

It seem you need special circumstances

[mmcv]

Yeah light infantry skirmishing against them makes sense. Ambushes as well, but those would probably be scenario specific or fit into making use of terrain, rather than charging over open ground

[Wellington]

There is another one you should research! There was a battle Romans against Sassanids during the crisis of the 3rd century. Roman infantry with clubs charged Sassanid kataphracts.

[mmcv]

There is another one you should research! There was a battle Romans against Sassanids during the crisis of the 3rd century. Roman infantry with clubs charged Sassanid kataphracts.

Yeah kataphracts I suspect will need to be handled differently, they were a lot less maneuverable than other cavalry, and intended to go toe to toe with infantry rather than charge through them and move away. I think they will be chargeable in this instance

[dadlamassu]

If memory serves I seem to remember reading that at Battle of Pharsalus Pompey's cavalry led by Labienus charged and drove back the Roman cavalry.  As was normal practice Pompey's cavalry reformed.  As they were doing this Caesar committed his reserve of formed infantry that had been kept hidden for just this eventuality.  The cohorts charged the cavalry using their pila as spears rather than throwing them. 

Bannockburn 1314 the Scottish spearmen successfully attacked and drove back the English knights.

[Diablo Jon]

Ahhh Romans the Battle of Tigranocerta Lucullus heavily outnumbered lead his legionnaire infantry in an attack on the Armenian heavy cavalry and routed them in hand to hand combat which saw the rest of the Armenian army rout.

[Diablo Jon]

There is another one you should research! There was a battle Romans against Sassanids during the crisis of the 3rd century. Roman infantry with clubs charged Sassanid kataphracts.

I think that was the Battle of Emesa which was against the Palmyrene Empire though in that case the cataphracts where disordered after seeing off the Roman cavalry.