Zvezda - What's Up?

[fred]

I do find it odd that companies stop producing plastic kits. The common view is that the mould is the hugely expensive bit, so once you have paid for that, why would you stop producing kits?

You only have to look at Airfix who are still producing the same kits they were 50 years ago to show the longevity of the moulds.

[Mammoth miniatures]

I think 1:72 is in a weird place when it comes to providing big boxes of figures - the price and market dominance of 28mm plastics has probably made them reconsider their commitments to producing kits to a smaller number of hobbyists when they could focus on board games or larger vehicle kits that have an appeal to model makers.

it's a shame as 20mm is a wonderful scale and the price point of plastic 1:72 figs should, in my opinion, make them a baselines for most gamers.

[Mr. White]

Yeah, it's a bummer this scale isn't more widely adopted. I love the speed of painting and easy storage.

I'll not get discouraged though. I'm currently working on a 1/72 (well, 20mm - same thing?) Post Apoc project and having the time of my life. And far fewer 1/72 Post Apoc figs have been produced than historical or fantasy. And for DR I only need _one_ orc army. One undead army. One samurai army. Etc

[Hobgoblin]

On a more positive note, there are huge amounts of 1/72 figures out there, both new and second hand. There are plenty of shops that are stuffed with them, and some manufacturers are still bringing out great new stuff. The newest figures from Dark Alliance are the equal of Zvezda, I'd say - the Arab-type troops are just fantastic, for example.

In the UK, it's certainly easy enough to get figures for pretty much whatever period you want to cover. There are 19 different boxes of knights available from Hannants, for example.

I do find it odd that companies stop producing plastic kits. The common view is that the mould is the hugely expensive bit, so once you have paid for that, why would you stop producing kits?

You only have to look at Airfix who are still producing the same kits they were 50 years ago to show the longevity of the moulds.

Yes, I'm baffled by the same point.

Even the Fantasy options don't seem very robust. As we mentioned Dark Alliance/Redbox but then a lot of things that "can sorta fit" with 1/72.

Certain of the Caesar ranges still seem to be going strong: elves, orcs (2), lizardmen, ratmen and zombies, for example.

And if you're in the US, then you've got the greatest resource available to the 1/72 fantasy gamer in Ral Partha legacy/Ironwind. You get perfectly sized gnolls, lizardmen, goblins and much, much more.

On Zvezda, this is interesting. No medievals yet, but it does seem that they're re-releasing out-of-production sets. You'd expect the English knights to come back sooner or later, given how good they are (and the high prices on eBay).

All in all, I'd say we're still in a bit of a golden age - and unarguably so for fantasy.

[Hobgoblin]

it's a shame as 20mm is a wonderful scale and the price point of plastic 1:72 figs should, in my opinion, make them a baselines for most gamers.

Yes, exactly this. For someone who wants to use miniatures in RPGs, you could get a colossal amount of options for around £50 (six boxes). Two boxes of (say) rangers and knights to cover adventurers, brigands and guards; a box of lizardmen; two boxes of humanoids (orcs, goblins, half-orcs, whatever); and a box of ancient or medieval civilians to cover female adventurers and NPCs of all descriptions.

The beauty is that you can 'convert' at this scale very easily with paint - and you get huge numbers. So you could take a box of Caesar orcs, paint a third red to be D&D hobgoblins, a third brownish-green to be D&D orcs and a third in human flesh tones to be half-orcs. Then you could get four tribes of different goblin-type things by painting each sprue of a Dark Alliance pack of goblins differently.Some lizardmen could be lizardmen and others could be troglodytes. And so on. So your £50 gets you perhaps 240 figures, with a huge range of adventurers, NPCs and basic monster types.

[Mammoth miniatures]

In the UK, it's certainly easy enough to get figures for pretty much whatever period you want to cover. There are 19 different boxes of knights available from Hannants, for example.

Yes, I'm baffled by the same point.

I believe 172 figs are made using a different process. Whilst Zvezdas hard plastic figs are steel moulds most liekly, the soft vinyl minis of other companies are possibly made using cheaper aluminium moulds or even hard rubber moulds with a pourable vinyl. Either case would mean a high initial yield until the mould degraded and that's your lot.

1:72 production is odd in that way too, you have companies like airfix using moulds from 50 years ago that are basically scrap, you have companies retrofitting rotocast systems into liquid plastic systems , and you have a few higher end companies doing proper hard polystyrene.

[Hobgoblin]

Ah, that's interesting. I've always presumed that the 1/72 process must be much cheaper than hard polystyrene, given the wealth of manufacturers.

One thing: the Zvezda 1/72 aren't hard plastic; in fact, their only de-merit is that their soft plastic is one of the more resistant to undercoating - especially compared with Caesar. I think Zvezda did make hard-plastic figures in 28mm at one point, but not for a while now.

Could you elaborate on how some of those very old ranges manage to still be in production? I gather that 1/72 are made from bigger masters (which is how you get the same ranges in 1/72 and 1/32 - e.g. Emhar Vikings). Is it possible that some companies keep the masters and just periodically create new moulds from them?

[Mr. White]

One thing: the Zvezda 1/72 aren't hard plastic; in fact, their only de-merit is that their soft plastic is one of the more resistant to undercoating - especially compared with Caesar. I think Zvezda did make hard-plastic figures in 28mm at one point, but not for a while now.

This is good to know. I use a grey spray primer designed for automobiles that I pick up from the hardware stores. it works fine on hard plastics like citadel as well as metals. Would I need to do something special to Zvezda? Is this another case of needing warm soapy water to get off some release agent?

[Mammoth miniatures]

Ah, that's interesting. I've always presumed that the 1/72 process must be much cheaper than hard polystyrene, given the wealth of manufacturers.

One thing: the Zvezda 1/72 aren't hard plastic; in fact, their only de-merit is that their soft plastic is one of the more resistant to undercoating - especially compared with Caesar. I think Zvezda did make hard-plastic figures in 28mm at one point, but not for a while now.

Could you elaborate on how some of those very old ranges manage to still be in production? I gather that 1/72 are made from bigger masters (which is how you get the same ranges in 1/72 and 1/32 - e.g. Emhar Vikings). Is it possible that some companies keep the masters and just periodically create new moulds from them?

a large part of it is about mould ware - 1:72 manufactures use softer plastics that can be pulled from a mould in the same manner as a green resin cast - so the pull and wear on the mould face is lessened.plus the pieces are smaller so the moulds, whilst finer, have less spiky or delicate parts and so require less work than say, a new GW mould. I imagine many of them simply run moulds to absolute destruction and then just sit on the stock for long periods of time - which would explain why some kits can be in stock for years and then disappear overnight.

Ceaser confuses me the most - those fantasy boxes are wonderful, they made such an extensive range, then POOF, gone.Surely worth a new set of moulds if ever anything was.

Were the zvezda samurai battles kits not hard plastic? i know some of their board games use hard polystyrene sprues.

[MikeRC97]

I think 1:72 is in a weird place when it comes to providing big boxes of figures - the price and market dominance of 28mm plastics has probably made them reconsider their commitments to producing kits to a smaller number of hobbyists when they could focus on board games or larger vehicle kits that have an appeal to model makers.

I think this is a great point.  15 - 20 years ago (the 1/72 "golden age")  1/72 plastics were the cheapest option for playing historical wargames, GW was the only company making plastic wargame figures in 28mm-ish.   About 10 years ago Warlord Games comes along with plastic 28mm WW2 figures and the Bolt Action rules (around the same time that GW started really alienating customers) and the market shifted.

Zvezda figures are made in steel moulds - there was a video out there a few years ago of a tour of their factory and they showed the steel mould for one of the small figures sets.   The difference is the plastic, its polyethylene ("soft plastic") not polystyrene ("hard plastic").  Polyethylene doesn't work with plastic cement which bonds polystyrene.

[Hobgoblin]

Swiftnick had success undercoating the Zvezda Greeks with plastikote. I just use black gesso, which seems to rub off more easily on Zvezda than the others, despite washing in soapy water. It's fine when all the painting and varnishing is done, though.

a large part of it is about mould ware - 1:72 manufactures use softer plastics that can be pulled from a mould in the same manner as a green resin cast - so the pull and wear on the mould face is lessened.plus the pieces are smaller so the moulds, whilst finer, have less spiky or delicate parts and so require less work than say, a new GW mould. I imagine many of them simply run moulds to absolute destruction and then just sit on the stock for long periods of time - which would explain why some kits can be in stock for years and then disappear overnight.

That's illuminating - many thanks!

Ceaser confuses me the most - those fantasy boxes are wonderful, they made such an extensive range, then POOF, gone.Surely worth a new set of moulds if ever anything was.

Yes - and, confusingly, some still seem to be in production but not others.

Were the zvezda samurai battles kits not hard plastic? i know some of their board games use hard polystyrene sprues.

Yes, I think you're right. The traditional boxes are soft plastic of an opaque sort that seems to show detail better than it holds paint (though well worth persevering until the varnish is on).

[Mr. White]

I have some Zvezda ninjas, that came in a box of like five models you attach to a dedicated single stand. They look like maybe they were a release for some tactics game? Definitely not the 20-40 minis in the box type release. Anyway, they are hard plastic on a sprue that need assembly.

[Andrew_McGuire]

On the last point, I remember a game of samurai battles in the Commands and Colors series for which Zvezda provided the miniatures. I never actually saw it but was just reminded of it. Some small sets of hard plastic samurai and ashigaru were also released, presumably containing the same sculpts.

[Mr. White]

Looks like there may be a bunch of wargame sets with their minis?
https://shop.1-72depot.com/miniatures/1-72/playsets/zvezda-playsets/

These are the minis I have.
https://www.pippd.com/products/zvezda-6406-1-72-scale-unpainted-snap-fit-miniature-figure-ninja

[Mammoth miniatures]

We also need to remember that zvezda are a Russian company, and Russian companies seem to export far less than others. Zvezda had a hard plastic 28mm fantasy range before many current manufacturers, but it largely didn't make it out of Russia. The same happened with their Sci fi kits which only took off in the UK after airfix licensed them.