Author Topic: Modern Russian armored train? (Read 22759 times)

dsmith · « **on:** 15 September 2009, 03:44:36 PM »

Hey guys,
I am looking for a modern diesel engine and a couple of flat cars for a near future armored train for my modern russian civil war , but don't want to shell out $100+ for the engine alone, I saw this idea on another site (can't remember which one at the moment)it looks fantastic the other guys is in 1/35th scale and I am looking for O gauge the type of engine won't matter as I plan to armor plate it, toys would be O.K. one flat car will have an armored box with a T-72 turret on it the other will have a sandbaged M.G. position, I think this keeps with the theme of the first RCW and is a must for my project.
Any ideas or help with this is much appreciated
D

former user · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 September 2009, 07:00:32 AM »

right

so, modern RCW will be something alternative I guess
inspiration:
there are some clkips on Youtube about "history of russian armoured trains"
also featuring the newer sovier rocket starting trains, but there aren't gun cars in the classical way
there is also some 007 with PB (can't remeber which one) where there is some kind of military train

check out "Krajina Express", an armoured train used in the recent Yugoslavian civil war
looks quite weird, armoured with rubber plates against hollow charges (I can send You som e pictures on that)

availability
well, it happens that I sell my spare 0 gauge track quite cheaply here, have a look

otherwise, check for "Faller" hittrain/playtrain/etrain on ebay, it's the cheapest you can get
flatcars are not very common though, so you will have to convert
also "western express", that you can sometimes get at ToysR Us

I don't know where You are from, so just in case I can help you out send me a PM
I also recently bought a Faller convolute from which I possibly could spare some stuff, but I don't have it yet, so I'll have to check it first

interesting project, good Luck with it

Westfalia Chris · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 September 2009, 07:12:00 AM »

Quote from: former user on 16 September 2009, 07:00:32 AM

there is also some 007 with PB (can't remeber which one) where there is some kind of military train

You´re referring to "Goldeneye", in which there is a pretty spiffing "game of chicken" with the villain in an old Soviet "rolling headquarters" armoured train vs. James Bond (Brosnan) in a Russian MBT (can´t remember which pattern, probably either T-55 or T-72). That one is rather nicely done, but less of a fighting vehicle than a mobile command post. Nonetheless, by attaching a number of BTR-80 turrets to the roof, I guess it would make a formidable armoured train and not overpower the opposition.

This is the Bond train (in all probability a mundane loco with "movie cosmetics" smacked on):

Other than that, you could look to the game classic "Transarctica" for inspiration, although this is more Sci-Fi orientated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transarctica

The almost archetypical Soviet loco for such trains would be one of the various types of "Taiga Drum" diesel engines.

http://images.google.de/images?q=taiga%20drum&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=de&tab=wi

I guess you´d have to look around quite a bit. Maybe use a paper model, I think I´ve seen some on the net. Or scratch-build the body from soft wood or foam, then add detail using cardboard.

dsmith · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 September 2009, 02:25:33 PM »

Guys,
I knew I could count on you as a resource former user the Krajina express is a great example of what I am looking to do. Westphalia Chris now I have to go and rent goldeneye to get a good look at that train,Mine will be a lot less ornate and based on the Tiaga for sure I liked the looks of it in the posted link, but in case my railroad modeling skills fall short I might do a shuntting engine. I was able to find several rolling freight cars from Verlinden on Ebay, which if I'm going to build this it will be pulled out only for special scenarios and not used as a common game piece, and used more for display.
Given the example of the Krajina express it is a classic example of improvisation during times of conflict.
So I think I will take your advice buy a slab of balsa and do the engine from that and skin it in plastic.
My next question would be do R/R stores sell just the suspension for trains? non powered I am new to scale rail modeling,and where can I find scale line drawings of Taiga in 1/48 which would put it in line with thw Verlinden cars.
Thanks again
D

Svennn · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 September 2009, 02:33:08 PM »

Is this not modern enough? I would be willing to part with it for a decent offer but I also have scale plans available

Svennn

dsmith · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 September 2009, 02:59:26 PM »

Svennn, that is very nice I like it alotttt

I have a coulpe of questions
what scale is it

Will it work with 40mm figures as I am useing HLBsco figures for this project

Did you scratch build this? if so many props to you.

Is it based on the Tiaga the lines look similar.

Finally are the turrets removable or rotating because I drop a couple of T-72 turrets in there place or BTR turrets and Viola instant modern upgrades as well as Mgs in the side sponsons and I would'nt even have to go down the flat car route.
Do you think that these turrets in 1/48 scale would work.
Man thanks again for posting those are great pics.
D

Svennn · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 September 2009, 03:04:07 PM »

Its a scratch build from some 1/25th plans which I resized to roughly 1/50-1/56th. All the turrets rotate and lift off, they are basically set on pins through holes in the body. They are Copplestone 28mm Chinese in the photo but it does perhaps look a little big??. Tiaga? no idea, it was a Polish train but cannot remember the name.

Westfalia Chris · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 September 2009, 04:06:14 PM »

To make things a bit clearer: "Taiga Drum" (note the spelling) is a semi-official nickname for various cold war diesel (or diesel-electric) locomotives built by the Soviet Union. The nickname stems from their use on the Transsiberian railroad and the Baikal-Amur-Magistral line, but they were used on most other lines as well. Derek, I´ll take a look in my father's extensive railway library to see if I can find a scale drawing. Svenn's totally lovely armoured railcar is 1920/30-ish, although I´m sure it wouldn´t look too out-of-place for a post-war or post-apocalyptic setting, either.

On the other hand, I guess you can´t really go wrong with "militarizing" (i.e. add some shutters, extra plates, repaint) existing railcars. And, frankly, I cannot distinguish Russian railcars from German ones without seeing any lettering, so I guess it´s fair game as long as they look suitably imposing and functional.

dsmith · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 September 2009, 04:23:08 PM »

I could'nt agree more that is a fine looking build to be sure, I was looking at its over all shape and it truely looks the part of the taiga drum large center mass where I would presume the boiler engine to be located forward and rear facing windows I think it fits the bill , Svennn Is it foam centered or wood just trying to think for possible shipping, I would'nt even want to venture a fair price given I might insult you being to low so think about all you put into and what you think it might be worth and drop me a PM.
As a contingency plan any scale plans Svennn/Westphalia Chris would be really appreciated I've got lots of Card stock and foam/balsa
D

Svennn · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 September 2009, 04:31:04 PM »

I am pretty sure its a WWII train as quite a few people commented as it being a bit late for the BOB games I built it for. It is part of PP-52 Pilsudczyk

A lot more of it here, and you can see the construction. It is heavy but only because I used a thick wooden base under the skirts - it has no wheels - as ballast. I could probably remove it though. Where in the world (PC World ((you'll only get this if you have been subjected to the shite tv adverts)) are you?

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=9666.0

Westfalia Chris · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 September 2009, 04:40:50 PM »

D, success! I´ve found, scanned and translated a scale drawing of a 1961 model TT106 diesel loco, which I´ll send off to you if you can give me your e-mail adress via personal message. (ca. 1mb, scaled to 8x11 format, 300dpi). The measurements are in mm (metric), but I guess that´s less of a problem. Best of all, it shows both the exterior and the interior placement of systems.

former user · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 September 2009, 05:53:10 PM »

why the hell would anyone object to Your wonderful train?

it may be a little early to use it in the bolshevik-Poland campaign, but who cares if You have an armoured train....
apart from that it looks perfect
I don't have my armoured train book at hand, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually used 1920
it would be really tempting...

@dssmith

you can find spare parts for trains
if you need only the wheels, you can use small G gauge wheels or very big HO gauge wheels

the axle you make out of steel rod
and with armoured trains you don't need to care about the rest of the carriage

dsmith · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 September 2009, 12:36:41 AM »

Thanks to all
Svennn answer California

Westphalia Chris PM sent thanks again for looking that up

former user the quick how to for wheels is much appreciated.
Svennn I really enjoyed your build log that thing is awsome, if you figure out a price please drop me a line might save me alot of time building my own if we can reach an accord. does it come with tracks if not what would you reccomend based on the scale you used? It would almost feel like blaspheme doing my proposed changes I relly like it as is.
former user stand by I might be interested in your track.
D

former user · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 September 2009, 06:06:31 AM »

the Polish armoured train was built in 1919 or 1920 apparently
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/pol/pol-trains/pol-train.html
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/pol/pol-trains/Pol-armoredtrain-1939.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armoured_trains#Before_regaining_the_independence_in_1918
here is also a collection of links
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-23068.html

and used until 1945
http://www.niehorster.orbat.com/029_poland/organizations/train-armd.html
http://derela.republika.pl/armtrain.htm

here is a splendid tutorial on building the armoured loco for said train, not in 1:25
http://anne.messageboard.nl/29197/viewtopic.php?t=208&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

dsmith · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 September 2009, 07:32:35 PM »

Hey guys,
I wanted to take a moment to say thanks for all the links and great ideas, and run some possibl eideas for my train by you to see if you like.
O.K. scratch building is a option might take 4 years , but is an option(looking to get it on the table ASAP)

I found some resin train stuff on Ebay from verlinden this is all german WWII of course but heres what I'm thinking to maybe make this work. After the war the Russians took stuff back home just like we did except unlike us they put the more functional things in service in those theatres of less threat.Like PZIV and Kingtigers on the Amur line as static defense.
So if they got their hands on a couple of these armoured trains that were servicable, they throw them into action.
My idea then is this For my modern RCW from out of the Far east military command comes this border guard train which has been used as a direct fire support weapon in areas where tanks and APC's would not be able to function while giving the guys on the ground operating in the mountains and passes some needed punch. There are several questions I have there is one of thes verlinden kits which is said to be a scout car was this self propelled and another which looks like yours Svennn which I don't know enough about to be sure if it was self propelled.
Again thanks alot guys and let me know what you think.
Derek

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