Why mm?

[Unlucky General]

Can anyone help me with a genuine curiosity I have?

I've always thought wargaming and toy soldiers were driven in the current era from the Donald Featherstone 1960s and as for back as I can remember, British toy soldiers dominated and still do.

So why is it that wargaming uses a millimeter scale when the UK were using old imperial measurements?

While we are at it - why originally 25mm? I recognise it had to be one size or another but does anyone know if there was a a prevailing reason? It's just such a small fraction over an inch, why didn't our wargaming forefathers just settle on an inch? It seems in stark contrast to how rule writers are still holding onto inches ... it's all over the shop.

I am genuine about this ... I'd love to know.

[mmcv]

I've wondered this myself at times. My best guess is that when the metric system was introduced in the UK, which was around the mid sixties, it coincided with the growth of the hobby. When dealing with very small numbers, mm are far easier to deal with than fractional inches. I suspect it's mainly the manufacturing switch to metric that drove it as industry was generally in favour of it as more precise and in line with their European counterparts.

The inch was (and is) still in everyday use though and worked well for measuring distances and rounding it out to 25mm was probably a natural step to take for early figure makers. The continued use of the inch in measurements is likely a mix of convenience and tradition, though many of us prefer to convert to metric units and use them instead. The UK never really went all in on metric and bizarrely keeps roadsigns in miles, so not that strange that games use a hybrid system either I guess...

[Wellington]

1" = 25 mm is an easy one, but how was the 15 mm called in the old Imperial times?

[has.been]

My first ever set of Wargaming rules WRG 2nd edition (which
was just a reprint of 1st edition which had proved much more
popular than expected) was all in inches. But in the Appendix II
it does mention 'The "20" mm scale which is usually referred to
as a scale of 4 mm to the foot'
In fact I remember collaring Phil Barker at a show, about having
to rebase all my one & one eighth inch light cavalry bases to their
 new metric sizes years later. No sympathy from him, 'I've got to
redo all of mine!' he moaned.

[dadlamassu]

In the old days, when I was young, figures were 54mm Toy Soldier Scale.  Wargame soldiers (Airfix) were scaled to the model railways scale of 4mm to 1 foot (don't ask me why the mix of metric/Imperial) = 1/76 or to the model aircraft scale is the more easily understood 1 inch to 1 foot = 1/72.  There were no 15mm model soldiers until much later (1970s?). 

There are many discussions on why scale - 1/100, 1/72, 1/76, 1/87 etc was replaced by size - 20mm approx 1/87), 25mm (approx 1/72), 28mm (approx 1/64), 32mm (approx 1/56), 54mm (approx 1/32) etc  Then there are model railway OO, HO, S etc.

There is also more discussion on why each company has a different idea of 25mm, 28mm, 32mm etc.

[has.been]

There is also more discussion on why each company has a different idea of 25mm, 28mm, 32mm etc.

The first time I went clothes shopping with my now wife, I tried to
be helpful & at the start I asked, 'What size are you looking for?'
& then proceeded at each shop to help going through the racks &
rails, looking for the said size. In one shop I triumphantly held
aloft the 'correct' size.  'No' I was told, 'That's a Marks & Spencer
size * '  ? 'They are way different to BHS's size *' 

So it is not just us wargamers.

[Etranger]

1" = 25 mm is an easy one, but how was the 15 mm called in the old Imperial times?

1/8" or thereabouts, but it depends upon what scale 15mm represents! IE it was sometimes 1/120 and more usually 1/108 originally but generally accepted as  1/100 now. Then there's the naval modelling scale of 1/96. (which is 1/8" foot). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scale_model_sizes

and don't even think about what 10/12mm actually represents!

[Etranger]

In the old days, when I was young, figures were 54mm Toy Soldier Scale.  Wargame soldiers (Airfix) were scaled to the model railways scale of 4mm to 1 foot (don't ask me why the mix of metric/Imperial) = 1/76 or to the model aircraft scale is the more easily understood 1 inch to 1 foot = 1/72.  There were no 15mm model soldiers until much later (1970s?). 

There are many discussions on why scale - 1/100, 1/72, 1/76, 1/87 etc was replaced by size - 20mm approx 1/87), 25mm (approx 1/72), 28mm (approx 1/64), 32mm (approx 1/56), 54mm (approx 1/32) etc  Then there are model railway OO, HO, S etc.

There is also more discussion on why each company has a different idea of 25mm, 28mm, 32mm etc.

Reputedly Tamiya chose 1/35 for their military models as they could then copyright them, which they couldn't if they used 1/32 (54mm).

[Blackwolf]

And in Japan 1/20 was for mecha et cetera to roughly fit the hand.

[Cerdic]

The first time I went clothes shopping with my now wife, I tried to
be helpful & at the start I asked, 'What size are you looking for?'
& then proceeded at each shop to help going through the racks &
rails, looking for the said size. In one shop I triumphantly held
aloft the 'correct' size.  'No' I was told, 'That's a Marks & Spencer
size * '  ? 'They are way different to BHS's size *' 

So it is not just us wargamers.

Ha! Try buying cycling clothing. The sizeing is totally different to all other clothing and anything from China is different again...

[Harry Faversham]

I convert everything, wargame related, into inches as I know wot an inch looks like, a foot too...
usually fits, just right, in my mouth whenever I have a cogitation.

[Sterling Moose]

I've always thought that by measuring in inches you conform to the US, which has the potential to be a bigger market for gaming companies.  Also it's easy for the older UK folks (of which I am one) to visualise an inch or 6 inches, metric mm seem too granular, a bit like the mils vs degrees argument in navigation.

[Ninefingers]

HO model railways are 3.5mm to the foot, which was expanded to 4mm to the foot in OO Scale as British locomotives are smaller so needed bigger models to fit the motors. As has been mentioned, Airfix followed OO Scale, created '20mm' figures as we know them, and the rest is history.

[SteveBurt]

I recall that way back when, 25mm figures were described as one inch and 54mm as two inch.

[Norm]

In the UK, if you cut  a length of string and showed it to someone OVER a certain age and asked them how long it was, you would likely get feet and inches. If you asked the same question of a person under a certain age, you would likely get centimetres.

Schools are currently teaching metric.

Wood sizes are in metric

fabrics are in metric

Food is weighed in metric

Tape measures and rulers are no longer always dual, you have an evens chance of buying one that is metric only.

My favourite rules are in inches!

Slowly, the population using metric will prevail in the UK, but if you are a wargamer, that might still feel a long way off :-)