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Author Topic: Norman knights’ chainmail armour - Leather squares on the chest – what it is?  (Read 8577 times)

Offline Citizen Sade

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The Bayeux tapestry knights with the squares on their chests are depicted with mail coifs just like those without them. Could it be that they represent additional facial protection, worn only by some knights, that tie to the coif? Like a mail veil that could be untied to aid breathing or communication. Is there a proper name for such a piece of armour? It's not aventail if my understanding of that term is correct.

Offline Atheling

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The Bayeux tapestry knights with the squares on their chests are depicted with mail coifs just like those without them. Could it be that they represent additional facial protection, worn only by some knights, that tie to the coif? Like a mail veil that could be untied to aid breathing or communication. Is there a proper name for such a piece of armour? It's not aventail if my understanding of that term is correct.

Yes, it's called a "ventail" :)

Bacisally, "(in medieval armour) a covering for the lower part of the face", Collins Dictionary.

Offline Citizen Sade

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Ta.

Anyone seen any knights on the tapestry with the ventail in place on the face?

Offline Atheling

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Ta.

Anyone seen any knights on the tapestry with the ventail in place on the face?

You can explore the whole tapestry in high resolution here:
EXPLORETHE BAYEUX TAPESTRY ONLINE:
https://www.bayeuxmuseum.com/en/the-bayeux-tapestry/discover-the-bayeux-tapestry/explore-online/


If you go to 50, them extreme right, it looks to me like the knight is wearing a ventail. The thing is, the tapestry was not made by military people so suffers from the usual distortion one would expect. For example, all the Anglo Danes are wearing what looks like trendy shorts made out of mail. This was certainly not the case!  lol
« Last Edit: 25 February 2022, 01:56:48 PM by Atheling »

Offline Cubs

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If you go to 50, them extreme right, it looks to me like the knight is wearing a ventail.

That might be the bit where William gets drunk (the quote says "HIC WILLELM DUX"). I'm guessing that's Bishop Odo with the club, pointing and saying to him, "My, what a fine example of a Norman ventail."
« Last Edit: 25 February 2022, 06:14:44 PM by Cubs »
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

Paul Cubbin Miniature Painter

Offline Citizen Sade

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Of it might be the bit where Duke William, the bastard, decides to test the effectiveness of the ventail by clobbering a knight who laughed at his mail leggings.

Offline Moriarty

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Come on, chaps, just look at Moriarty's photo...  it is obviously a television screen, a knight in entertainment system. Probably only black and white though.

So, prototype Teletubbies, then? Why did I not think of that!

Offline gregmita

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A clearer comparison is earlier in the Bayeux Tapestry.
For knights at rest, they have the flaps down, forming the "square" on the chest.


For charging knights, note how the leather edges of the "squares" are now conforming to the contours of their necks and covering them.

Offline Atheling

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A clearer comparison is earlier in the Bayeux Tapestry.
For knights at rest, they have the flaps down, forming the "square" on the chest.

Well, the manufacturers were willing to make sure that the Normans rode stallions ;) :P

Actually, you make a very good point, this is certainly an argument that I prefer.

Offline leadfool

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Wasn't the ventail face mask just an early attempt at plaque virus protection. 
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Offline FierceKitty

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Wasn't the ventail face mask just an early attempt at plaque virus protection?

A toothbrush would be cheaper and more effective.
The laws of probability do not apply to my dice in wargames or to my finesses in bridge.

Offline gregmita

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Well, the manufacturers were willing to make sure that the Normans rode stallions ;) :P
lol
As they say, modesty wasn't invented yet.

Quote
Actually, you make a very good point, this is certainly an argument that I prefer.

Offline Atheling

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lol
As they say, modesty wasn't invented yet.

I could add to that, but in the interests of keeping the tone clean I will keep stum!  lol

 

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