Russians in the American Civil War What if?

[10thMountain]

Any thoughts on Russian intervention in the American Civil War?

[carlos marighela]

How and why and on whose side? No.

Now Luxembourg……….

[Redshank]

The logic might be if Britain had intervened in favour of the Confederacy, and it looked as if the Union might lose, enhancing Britain's power.

However...

The Russians sold Alaska to the US in 1867 because they thought they couldn't defend it against the British if it came to another war [edit: after the Crimean war]. A decision to go in against Britain means giving Alaska to Britain/Canada for free.

There is not much time to fit in a Russian intervention before the Polish rising in 1863. Maybe that never happens in this alternate history (although Russia getting dragged into another major war probably makes it more likely).

There is also the question of how the Russians bring their force to bear (heh). This was way before the Trans-Siberian railway - it would be logistically very difficult for the Russians to send a force eastwards. Even then they would need to get troops past the Royal Navy. Clearly they have no chance of getting troop ships across the Atlantic.

Hope this isn't going too far off topic but I have before idly pondered a World War Zero scenario based on the Crimean War spreading.

Austria comes in against Russia (instead of a pro-Allied neutrality). This scares Prussia into going to war with Austria, for fear their traditional ally Russia gets crushed and they are left facing Austria in Germany and France on the Rhineland alone.

If we want to go really gonzo, the diversion of British strength into a major war in Europe tempts the US into an attack on Canada (we would need to assume US domestic politics turned out very differently to reality). The war is massively controversial and prompts the southern states to secede, so the civil war happens 5 or 6 years early...

[CapnJim]

And to take this further off-track, what about the French?  On whose side, if any, would they land, given their adventures there?  (Edit:  "There" being Mexico, of course...)

[commissarmoody]

This reminds me of a project I was looking into where Austria some how sti has enough power along with political will to help Maximilian out in Mexico and..We have a 2-3 way war in the late 1860s early 1870s. Between the Austrian-franco support Royalist and American forces in support of Mexican Republican forces.
Hell toss England and Russia in as well. 

[10thMountain]

https://www.americancivilwarforum.com/the-russian-navy-in-american-ports-1863-1879123.html

Take a look at the above link.

[Mad Gadgeteer]

I've always thought it would be interesting if the US had sent troops to Europe to help Napoleon.

[10thMountain]

Here is another link:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/russia-in-the-american-civil-war.364125/

[carlos marighela]

I've always thought it would be interesting if the US had sent troops to Europe to help Napoleon.

It would be, right up until point where the convoys conveying such troops run into the Royal Navy. 

[commissarmoody]

It would be, right up until point where the convoys conveying such troops run into the Royal Navy. 

Yeah we were very much a minor power in the Napoleonic wars.

[FifteensAway]

Actually, you could get a bit of ACW with Russians in America if you keep the action on the west coast and posit that they did not sell Fort Ross to John Sutter.  You would need some reason beyond the fur trade which is what brought the Russians (as far as I recall) to California.  Maybe they mount an expedition after either the gold of California or the silver of Nevada, or both.  As mentioned, logistics would be a serious challenge. 

Or you could go a lot lighter and play around with a Russian-American variation on the Pig War that almost brought the US and Britain to blows - and for some 'research' you can watch Paint Your Wagon, there was a Russian (or two?) in No Name City.

This would amount to a distraction for the Union and, if you go for the gold/silver reasoning, you might even pull in some Confederate interest if the escape route leads through New Mexico (a bit of a stretch to do that).

[Hwiccee]

Politically Russia and Prussia were generally pro Union at this time. More accurately they were anti British and anti French & as these were pro Confederate they were also kind of pro Union. So maybe they could have intervened and my group has done 'waht if 'battles featuring Russian/Prussian intervention. Often also with British/French on the other side

Why they would want to get involved unless the British/French also intervened is more of a problem. Also how they would get to the America's in the face of opposition from the 2 strongest naval powers. But for a 'what if' then maybe .......

[von der Tann]

Well ... I read a lot of Prussia in this thread concearning Russia ... 

I think, since Bismarck was focussed on uniting the German states and excluding Austria, he wouldn't have send/allowed troops to be send to the US or even hampered British/French intervention in the CW. That would have kept, especially the French, occupied and focussed elsewhere, making the war of 1870/71 possibly easier with French troops still in America.

 Also I think he wasn't too afraid/concerned of a land war against France because not 10 years later Bismarck provoked France to attack.

[Hwiccee]

Well ... I read a lot of Prussia in this thread concearning Russia ... 

I think, since Bismarck was focussed on uniting the German states and excluding Austria, he wouldn't have send/allowed troops to be send to the US or even hampered British/French intervention in the CW. That would have kept, especially the French, occupied and focussed elsewhere, making the war of 1870/71 possibly easier with French troops still in America.

 Also I think he wasn't too afraid/concerned of a land war against France because not 10 years later Bismarck provoked France to attack.

Yes I agree. I think any actual involvement in the war was unlikely in any event for both Russia and Prussia. Even if they did intervene after Britain/France joined the war I would expect them to strike in Europe rather than send troops to America.

[von der Tann]

Yes I agree. I think any actual involvement in the war was unlikely in any event for both Russia and Prussia. Even if they did intervene after Britain/France joined the war I would expect them to strike in Europe rather than send troops to America.

Thinking of it. Maybe you could play some kind of clandestine intervention in the CW. The Russians certainly have a rich history when it comes to intelligence services. Prussians ... not so much. This would make it more like a skirmish game than mass battle.
Or you have to rewrite the whole history. Could be fun too.