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Author Topic: 1920 Russo-Polish War Project  (Read 7203 times)

Offline Rogerc

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Re: 1920 Russo-Polish War Project
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2024, 06:42:53 PM »
There is a photo of Officers of the 1st Lithuanian - Belorussian Division on the Warsaw 1920 Osprey, they are mainly in Polish uniforms with the small crowned Polish cap.
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My blog gapagnw.blogspot.co.uk

Offline Mark Plant

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Re: 1920 Russo-Polish War Project
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2024, 09:37:17 AM »
The 1st Lit-Bel was an entirely Polish unit. That part of the world, like the western Ukraine, had a lot of Poles before Stalin's ethnic cleansing at the end of WWII, and 1920 Poland extended a long way into modern Lithuania and Belarus.

Bulak-Bulakhovich's lot were ethnic Russians. Originally part of the North-Western Army, then with men recruited from those Whites that made it to Poland and from former Red POWs.

Offline Rogerc

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Re: 1920 Russo-Polish War Project
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2024, 06:26:02 PM »
Right, so possibly in the german uniforms of the North Western Army but more likely in Russian Tsarist uniforms I guess?

Offline Mark Plant

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Re: 1920 Russo-Polish War Project
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2024, 08:52:01 PM »
It won't be German. Bulak-Bulakhovich dressed in Cossack himself, and almost all his men were Red Army deserters.

His Russian-ness was a big deal, so that seems most likely.

Since all the German uniforms would go to Poznanian units, French uniforms to the ex-Blue armies, and new Polish ones to the likes of the Legions, I would guess that left them only Russian (or possibly English, if they shipped any to Poland).

Offline cuprum

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Re: 1920 Russo-Polish War Project
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2024, 01:06:35 AM »
The Lithuanian-Belarusian division consisted of residents of territories that once belonged to the Principality of Lithuania. There were not only Poles here, but also Belarusians of the Catholic religion. There were practically no Lithuanians in this division, since Lithuania created its own state - the Republic of Lithuania.
The division was created from soldiers of the Polish army and with a specific political goal - the annexation of territories claimed by three countries: Poland, Lithuania and Russia. A sort of “proxy army” of Poland, which was used to capture Vilna from the Republic of Lithuania.
The division was equipped in the usual Polish uniform mod. 1917 and did not have any special insignia.
By the way, the Poles and Lithuanians fought among themselves for the disputed territories; Soviet Russia actually acted as an ally of the Republic of Lithuania and transferred Vilna to Lithuania, which the Poles had previously taken from the Lithuanians.

The army of the Belarusian Republic itself is a “paper” formation that has no real military force. There is no point in reproducing it on a gaming table.

Bulak-Balakhovich's army wore Russian uniforms (in the cavalry - Cossack ones), later (by 1920) they began to use Polish and American uniforms. They often began to wear a garrison cap with a characteristic trim. The insignia on the headdress is a crossed skull and bones. A white cross was often worn on the left sleeve.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2024, 01:08:50 AM by cuprum »

Offline Mark Plant

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Re: 1920 Russo-Polish War Project
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2024, 02:41:57 AM »
A little bit unfair Cuprum, because the Polish state didn't form the Lit-Bel Division in order to do something that was three year's into the future. The three first regiments and the cavalry were self-defense organisations in the Lithuania-Belorussia area, formed very early. The fourth regiment was added later when the division formed, but was men fleeing the same area.

It was added to the Polish army as its 19th Infantry Division. Some of the unit were not entirely happy with that, because they felt their aims to have Poland extend a long way east were being lost. 

Then Pilsudski reverted it back to being the "1st Lit-Bel Division" because he wanted, as you say, a proxy unit to do his dirty work with regards to Vilnius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBeligowski's_Mutiny).


Offline AWu

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Re: 1920 Russo-Polish War Project
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2024, 10:38:13 PM »
Sorry to dig up old topic but I have few words about the uniform:
Firstly - Great project - Love it!

The Polish M1917 uniform was a German "gray-green" color, the M1919 uniform was a khaki (mustard) uniform.

There is no such thing as Polish 1917 uniorm.

Before unification reforms Polish army wore 3 basic type of uniforms
Legionary (polonised Austro Hungarian hechtgrau) - Leggionaruy and ex AUstro Hungarian units, on the front since  November 1918

German type WWI Feldgrau - Armia Wielkopolska units from ex German held land won in Powstanie Wielkopolskie - against the Bolsheviks since August 1919
German helmets were in common use.

French horizon bleu - used by Haller's army transfered from France (tanks were also painted in French camo - against the Bolsheviks since June 1919
French Arian helmets are perfectly ok for them.

4th Russian was used mostly in Siberian division.
They were never mixed and unit based (Pułk - Regiment sized units dressed the same)

This hechtgrau Legionary uniform is totally Ok, just use it with Austro Hungarian equipment and with round hats.

1919 type uniform would not have chest pockets, while Legionary uniforms would have pockets with Austro-hungarian style.



Legionary

1919
« Last Edit: October 14, 2024, 10:50:56 PM by AWu »

Offline cuprum

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Re: 1920 Russo-Polish War Project
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2024, 01:12:52 AM »
Uniform of the 1917 model







Uniform of the 1919 model



« Last Edit: October 15, 2024, 01:27:35 AM by cuprum »

Offline Rogerc

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Re: 1920 Russo-Polish War Project
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2024, 02:40:22 PM »
Thanks all, I am making good progress with this, first unit in the German type uniforms completed and more detail to follow.

Offline Pan Marek

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Re: 1920 Russo-Polish War Project
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2024, 09:46:35 PM »
This is all great stuff.  I particularly like the color photos of reproduction uniforms.

But Hechtgrau in 1918?  I thought the Austro-Hungarians had switched to feldgrau or nettle green in 1916.  Wouldn't any Austrian surplus or uniforms of
Polish units be in the latter colors?   I would think that all Hechtgrau stocks would've been used up, especially since Austria was hard pressed at the end of
the war.
Or am I way off?

Offline cuprum

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Re: 1920 Russo-Polish War Project
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2024, 04:32:27 AM »


In fact, the Austrian uniform could be found in a variety of shades of protective color. Cloth of different years of manufacture was used, there were difficulties with the dye, and many other reasons for this. No matter which of these shades you dyed the uniform in, it cannot be considered a mistake. Moreover, Polish cavalrymen (mostly officers) quite willingly used even elements of the colored ceremonial Austrian uniform.

 

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