Fistful of Lead rules for Viking Raiding Games?

[FifteensAway]

Yes, of course I know you can use FFOL for Viking Games - you can use the rules for virtually any place in time or space.  What I am hoping for is to hear from those who have actually tried using the rules for Viking games, especially if you've used the Bigger Battles variant, but either variant is of interest.

So, for those of you who have such experience, please let me know how it worked out, what sort of scenarios you created, and photos of such games if you have them, please.

I will be using 15 mm figures - I have at least four separate bands of Vikings, perhaps as many as 40 figures per band (most figures in each band unique, not quite all, but most - though duplicates across bands).  And I have plenty of civilians to populate villages and other targets for the Vikings to raid plus appropriate buildings and ships - though much in need of paint.  Just wanting to hear from those who have used FFOL for this arena.

Thanks!

And, please, can we keep this thread restricted to FFOL only?  I know there are other Viking raiding rules - and there is a current thread for those discussions.  I would like to keep this topic more focused to this one rule set - even if it means I end up 'talking to myself'  .

[Maniac]

We have, as well as similar raids in other periods.  The rules for starting fires (task roles) are good as are carrying objects.

We often use task roles to claim control of civilians, and then move them to deployment zones.

I've also thought of using task roles to see if models get distracted looting.  Previously we've used a deck of cards, with the various cards meaning certain items/victory points, and randomly deal them out to locations.  However it would be interesting to have a main objective that sub models could be distracted from performing.  Say a central church or hall, and as models pass homes they must take a task roll or divert into the home to pillage it.  Hard for regulars, easy for leaders/specialists.  If they pass they can act normally, if they fail they divert into the building for x number of actions looting it.

[Aethelflaeda was framed]

FFOL:BB is pretty bloody and quick, and a forty figure band of figures as a single unit would be better divided into smaller bands as the combat system is bucket of dice. (i take it your four bands are meant to be used 1 or 2 per side.) I would divide the bands into 8-10 man units with a few heroes and commanders individually assigned.  5-8 units/cdrs is good for a player and your activation deck handles up to 50 units ( although slower) in a game so 32 total units on the table is still wieldy for a team game of two sides of 16 each.

 The biggest problem in FFOL with viking period is shield walls and linear group formation moves.  It’s individual units moving by card initiative and the staccato advance of units can be an issue, so I house ruled a leadership trait based on “ready” which enabled multiple units to use the slowest card drawn to move all together when the leader moves.  This prevents flanks from hanging exposed—not that exposed flanks matters that much in the game system, the combat results are so bloody you’ll find very few units can fight very long in combat, taking on average roughly 25% of the opposing forces’s strength in a round of combat and another 25% to shock, if not armored, even when they win! We found units often just disintegrate in one round of combat.  I actually toned down the to hit numbers for non-con games to give a little more nuance for maneuvering.

[FifteensAway]

Good ideas and good thoughts about some of the restrictions in the rules.  And, yes, one of the challenges with FFOL is that it can be pretty bloody so ways to mitigate that are worth looking into - as long as it doesn't 'break' the core concept of quick and fun games. 

As to number of units, I can push it up to 60 units easily with decks that include a Duke and Princess card, one for each suite.  Not sure how playable that large a game might be but I expect I'll get there eventually (likely not with Vikings though).

Breaking a band into sub-units is a simple and effective mechanism especially since I'm not a fan of buckets of dice games.  Can easily break down into 5-8 sub-units for each band.   So, if I were running all four bands with eight sub-units each that reaches that mentioned 32 units.  Except.  Need cards for the opponents, too.  They deserve a chance to try and leg it into the woods or fight back if they can.

Glad to know I'm not talking to myself! 

[fred]

I find task rolls in FFOL very handy for all sorts of things within a game - we tend to use them for crossing obstacles - eg a window or a tall fence, as these seem a bit too easy in the base rules.

I do like the idea that a unit has to take a task roll to avoid looting the next building.

[FifteensAway]

Well, this thread has already borne some fruit for me.  I pulled out my Vikings to double check what I had - turns out there are three, not four, forces.  I like that, less to paint!

They break down like this for each force:

Mounted leader on extra large base (just enough bases left!)
Hero on extra large foot base
And then seven groups of six figures each -
   Command group with leader, side kick, two standards, a horn blower, and a wolf head
   Berserkers
   Spear
   Sword
   Archers with three bow, two crossbow, and one shield maiden
   Ax group with five axemen and one shield maiden
   Ax group with five axemen and one shield maiden
   Four mounted Vikings

Not all groups are 'perefect' but workable though most are good Viking sculpts with proper weapons, most of the 'odd' bits are some having the wrong weapon for the group, easily adjusted for - use a 'common' paint scheme so all players know which group goes together - perhaps in combination with varied tuft colors for each sub-group.  And, yes, some of above might be a bit ahistorical but it is just for a game that is supposed to be fun.

In addition each of the three forces has some supplemental items:
   A mounted Viking with a woman in front of him and a man holding on to the horses tail plus another man draped over a second horse
   Two captive men and three captive women
   One standing, one crawling/crouching wounded, three dead
For two groups there is a battering ram with eight figures, four of which are fighters, the third group only has six figures, all fighters, but their battering ram lacks wheels - so remains static (unless I find or create wheels - and find two more crew figures)
There are also a half dozen extra shields for each force - I think they might be based and painted to be used as status markers

With the buildings and the ships, I can run some pretty substantial variations of scenario options 

And then, just to add to the fun, I have some Bear Men, the Wendol of The Thirteenth Warrior movie:
Six leaders, 12 ax, 12 spear, and 6 mounted.  And if the mood ever strikes and they are still available from Splintered Light Miniatures, I can add more.

I also have Normans, Saxons, and Celts (more or less on the latter - just using up figures that I'm not passing on to a nephew soon).

And with the figures, mostly civilians but some others that will be useful, from my Robin Hood, Jousting, and to a lesser degree my Threee Musketeers collections - carts and wagons, the sky really is the limit for scenario designing.

I sorted out bases for all of the Vikings and Bear Men to go with the now carefully sub-group sorted forces.  Those other mentioned groupings already have their bases (well, Normans, Saxons, and Celts may not yet but they are a lower priority at the moment.  Besides, I'd need to order more bases or use a different style bases - which I have plenty of the latter.)

Back to the rules:

One thought I've had for 12 figure groups is to base 3 as individuals and the other 9 as groups of 3.  And then treat each of the individual figures as One and treat each multi-base group also as One; that would mean an in tact unit in a melee with all bases included would get 6 dice rather than 12.  That gets more figures onto the table but doesn't slow the game as much as it would if using all twelve figures as 'individuals' whether singly or multi-based.  Basically, you get three tough guys and three stands of 'cannon fodder' so to speak.  Or for smaller games, just use the three for a true skirmish level event.  Thoughts?

[Maniac]

FFOL:BB is pretty bloody and quick, and a forty figure band of figures as a single unit would be better divided into smaller bands as the combat system is bucket of dice. (i take it your four bands are meant to be used 1 or 2 per side.) I would divide the bands into 8-10 man units with a few heroes and commanders individually assigned.  5-8 units/cdrs is good for a player and your activation deck handles up to 50 units ( although slower) in a game so 32 total units on the table is still wieldy for a team game of two sides of 16 each.

 The biggest problem in FFOL with viking period is shield walls and linear group formation moves.  It’s individual units moving by card initiative and the staccato advance of units can be an issue, so I house ruled a leadership trait based on “ready” which enabled multiple units to use the slowest card drawn to move all together when the leader moves.  This prevents flanks from hanging exposed—not that exposed flanks matters that much in the game system, the combat results are so bloody you’ll find very few units can fight very long in combat, taking on average roughly 25% of the opposing forces’s strength in a round of combat and another 25% to shock, if not armored, even when they win! We found units often just disintegrate in one round of combat.  I actually toned down the to hit numbers for non-con games to give a little more nuance for maneuvering.

I would argue that a 'raid' is not really a place for setting up a shield wall, and that becomes more of a 'pitched battle' tactic.  Small unit action might see them form up briefly, but your numbers are too few to make a shieldwall effective if you cannot keep your flanks secure.

It does have a 'form up' option, which will closely enough mimic this for a skirmish battle game (because a shield wall isn't tremendously different than say a greek hoplite phalanx).  You get some defensive bonuses, but become less mobile and have some flanking issues.

[FifteensAway]

I agree, a raid on a village/monastery, etc. isn't really a setting for a shield wall.  I also agree the rules have mechanics that will work for a shield wall.

[Aethelflaeda was framed]

No, a raid is just as likely to have shield walls if there are defending forces present.  If there is any sort of organized defense, a shield wall will definitely  be the formation of choice at entry/choke points and lanes.  A shield wall can be as few as three or four men so even at the entrance of the church that’s what they are going to do. 

[Maniac]

No, a raid is just as likely to have shield walls if there are defending forces present.  If there is any sort of organized defense, a shield wall will definitely  be the formation of choice at entry/choke points and lanes.  A shield wall can be as few as three or four men so even at the entrance of the church that’s what they are going to do.

Which is situational, and covered by the rules, and exactly what I said above.  With maybe 60 men in your ship, you might form it up in a choke point, but it's not super effective in an open field with numbers that small and non secure flanks.

[Aethelflaeda was framed]

Right,  a raid is always going for a habitat so the defenders, if they exist, are going to use the terrain. And the only way to break a shield wall if you can’t go around it is to form one yourself.  Even in a pitched  battle no one is going to form up in a line in a meadow if there are places to anchor a flank on the approach. .   If you lack numbers  to do so you pull back to where you can and if you are fighting in steppe land you otherwise refuse a flank. This wasnt a rugby game.