Two questions on Baden helmets 1809-1813

[arshak]

I have a couple of questions about uniforms of the Baden army in 1809-1813, essentially concerning their headgear.
The first is about the Dragoner. R. Knotel has two plates for the Dragoner, one showing the 1st Rgt. in 1809, see:

https://www.napoleon-series.org/military-info/organization/Baden/Knotel/KnotelVol03-Pl32.jpg

and the other the 2nd Rgt. in 1813, see:

https://www.napoleon-series.org/military-info/organization/Baden/Knotel/KnotelVol08-Pl50.jpg

to my eye, the 1809 version of the helmet is the Bavarian one (with higher bowl) but that of the 2nd Rgt. in 1813 is different (which seems confirmed by the comparison between the two figures on the left, belonging to the 2nd Rgt., and the single one on the right, from the 1st Rgt., who seems to wear the older “Bavarian” version), but I would like to ask the opinion of the experts here.

The second concerns the helmet of the infantry. Is it supposed to be of “Bavarian” style (with higher bowl) or closer to the Austrian model? Knotel shows something closer to the Austrian pattern (second figure from the l. here https://www.napoleon-series.org/military-info/organization/Baden/Knotel/KnotelVol04-Pl57.jpg) but I seem to remember to have seen higher (Bavarian style) Raupenhelme (like that worn by the Jäger?, third figure from the left in the same plate), so I am a bit confused…

Thank you so much in advance for any help!

[bluechi]

 :-IAfter the death of the husar regiment in the russia campaign (battle of Beresina) , they rebuild/formed the second Dragoner regiment who had this higher helmets and yellow buttons with the french style Epaulettes . (text in the picture). White pants only for parade !!!
Only the Jägers had the infantry high helmet. Many cities in Baden belong a long time to Austria (1803/1806). They choosed the austrian style like the Württemberg ,who changed after the occupation more to the french style (Tschako,uniform)

https://badischejaeger1808.de/index.php/forum/showposts/index/topicid/15/page/1#17

https://www.worean.de/-9110.html?language=de

[arshak]

Ach so, now everything is clearer with the Baden infantry helmet (so, Austrian-style for the line and higher one for the Jägers), and I am glad to get confirmation about the Dragoner...
as you mentioned them, do we know when exactly in 1813 the Württembergers abandoned their infantry helmet for the shako, did the change too place before or after Leipzig?
thanks again!!

[NTM]

Ach so, now everything is clearer with the Baden infantry helmet (so, Austrian-style for the line and higher one for the Jägers), and I am glad to get confirmation about the Dragoner...
as you mentioned them, do we know when exactly in 1813 the Württembergers abandoned their infantry helmet for the shako, did the change too place before or after Leipzig?
thanks again!!

My understanding is that the shako progressively replaced the helmet from 1812 with the process completed by 1814. So during the 1813 campaign there was a mixture but I can't recall which were documented as adopting the shako at the moment.

[bluechi]

Thats my thougts.....the informations are different. The badish who where send to the Spain campaign started with the Raupenhelmets and changed it (maybe). After the battle of Talavera the badish musicans captures the Tarleton Helmets of the british 23 light Dragoons. The same with the badish troops for the russian campaign commanded by Generalmajor  Lingg. Württemberg changed 1813 to the Tschako.

https://napoleon-online.de/

https://uniformenportal.de/index.php?/category/102/start-20#&ui-state=dialog

https://uniformenportal.de/index.php?/category/102/start-440#&ui-state=dialog

[bluechi]

If you need 28mm badish Dragoons than take the Perry BAV 30 , BAV32, BAV33 they worked for it. Or take a look in to the Piano wargames range (Württemberger).

[bluewillow]

Emperors toad Baden cavalry are quite nice.

A few painted samples on my blog


https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/2021/07/baden-light-dragoon-regiment-1st.html


Cheers
Matt

[arshak]

Thanks to all for the information (and I will read your article on the Baden army with interest, when it will be out, Matt..by the way, very nice figures  ) and for the figures indication, but my plans are in 15mm. I was already collecting Austrian infantry in helmet for the 1809 Württembergers (the friend with whom I should game is keen on the 1809 campaign, which is understandable as we live in Vienna), so I may now bear in mind that the same figures (I am already aware of some minor change to be done to the equipment or the cut of the lapels etc..) could be the base also for Badeners… the Dragoner were an idea for something apart, I have in mind some Prussian Kuirassier in Kollett that could be painted in light blue to work as 2nd Rgt. Dragoner in 1813 nearly straightaway… will show the result here when I’ll have it…
Thanks again!

[arshak]

I am resurrecting this thread after a very long time, as so far I did not manage to proceed with my project for some 1813 Baden dragoons, and now that I am getting back to it I have a further question. I was hoping to post the finished (test) figure (before hopefully find the time to convert some other ones to have the full unit), but I have been taken by a doubt just before starting to paint it: I am wondering about the shape of the shabraque, i.e. if the rear corner is fine (elongated backwards, don’t know how to describe it in English) or should be lower, thus making the shabraque a bit larger. What do you think?
here it is:



Thanks in advance for any help/comment…

[arshak]

Waiting to get all the donor figures to convert them in Baden Dragoner, I have lately shifted my priority to the Württemberg army for the 1809 campaign (I was sure to know how to edit the thread title but then I did not manage to do it). Not much easier in terms of figures, as AB makes them for 1812, meaning a few differences in little details, in addition to the size, which is too large even for other AB that I owned.
So, the result has been using Austrians in helmet and a few French, the former ones getting a sword, in addition to new lapels on the front, new turnbacks at the rear, and a new belt, the French getting helmeted heads and a few other touches. However, beside the line infantry, I started also the Jäger, again converting figures and again Austrians (from the AB Hungarian insurrection range), and French (those with broken bayonets being first selected), in addition to mix in some (old Fantassin) British Light and (AB) Prussian Jäger. Most annoying thing to model: the turban wrapped around the shako!
At any rate, here are a couple of pics of the Jäger, one of some nearly finished figure (AB, old Fantassin, and XAN), and one showing some of the milliput modifications (on an AB Prussian, a Fantassin British, and an AB Brit who lost his bayonet -and had the musket shortened accordingly)…