My Home Guard Mini Problem

[Listy]

For what it's worth I'm planning a Home Guard army, in 28mm for Bolt Action, and I've been wrestling with a huge problem for such an army for a while, to the extent that a friend suggest I post here to see if the wider community has any ideas.

The problem is simple enough: There's no models (well almost... but more about that later).

Before you go off to your favorite model supplier muttering about you could swear you've seen some, let me expand about it.

There are plenty of model ranges, all claiming to be Home Guard, but invariably the sculptor has either done no research or has made some assumptions. Which is fine, you've got a dead line, you just want paying and you've not got the time to become a SME etc, but it leaves people like me with a bit of a conundrum. The current ranges all fall into one of three categories.

1: LDV: Civilians with assorted improvised weapons. Perfect if you want that sort of thing, but I'm after something from after Sept 1940.
2: Dad's Army: The ubiquitous Dads Army Character set. Now I like Dad's Army as much as the next person, but it's doing some serious damage to the historical record (Which gets right up my historian's nose!), and isn't an army. It's a character set. Plus, they're inventively armed with SMLE's.
3: BEF Aged 70. The final group is your standard BEF style blokes, with SMLE's and the like, only aged 70 by sticking glasses and facial hair on them. Now the average age of the Home Guard was 40. Most of the pictures of the Home Guard show someone in heir 40-50's. The concept of 'Old men and boys' types is an off shoot of Dad's Army. Equally, the Home Guard had unique equipment. Now, the unique webbing pouches for example aren't going to be observable at this scale, but the weapons are, and here's the problem.

You can sub-in or modify the uniforms using BEF models, and there's a wide range of options here. But you'd need P.17 rifles, BAR's and some Tommy guns. There's one set from Wargames Atlantic that provides two P.17's, a BAR and a Tommy gun. But if I want riflemen then I have to buy an awful lot of models, that will go to waste to get them, and the poses will not have much variation. Equally, should I want a weapon lying about for weapon crew then I'm stuck. I'm handy enough to be able to convert guns into the hands of SMLE holders, that's no issue. But I'm no where near good enough to sculpt the weapons.

So my plea is simple, does anyone know how to get a large number of P.17 Rifles in 28mm? I've hunted around for 3d Prints and I've not been able to find any. the obvious answer is to look in US First World War ranges, but I've not been able to find a set with separate arms with P.17 (Eg Wargames Atlantic entries are all armed with Springfield's).

Thanks for any ideas!

[carlos marighela]

Wargames Atlantic's new plastic BEF set offers P.17s as well as BARs for customising the figures for Home Guard service. I haven't got the set or examined it closely but there's at least a source of P.17/P.14 rifles. You will need to paint the red band on stocks yourself of course. 

[vodkafan]

Aah Listy.....no I am going to go off to my favourite model supplier muttering. I think you should look at the 1st Corps range. I am sure Mr Fuller did more than a bit of research, I admit I haven't checked the range for BARs and P17s though.

[carlos marighela]

First Corps are all carrying SMLEs as well.

[Aethelflaeda was framed]

ya need these.

[HerbertTarkel]

ya need these.

One of the very, very few Warlord kits that are worth owning. They are nice sculpts. Even when upside down 

[CapnJim]

FYI, the Wargames Atlantic set has 2 P17s, a BAR, and a Tommy Gun PER SPRUE.  There are 5 sprues in the kit, if that helps.

[Jemima Fawr]

The Home Guard also used very large numbers of water-cooled Browning .30s, as well as Lewis Guns.  They really did have an impressive amount of firepower (eventually).

[Listy]

FYI, the Wargames Atlantic set has 2 P17s, a BAR, and a Tommy Gun PER SPRUE.  There are 5 sprues in the kit, if that helps.

Wargames Atlantic's new plastic BEF set offers P.17s as well as BARs for customising the figures for Home Guard service. I haven't got the set or examined it closely but there's at least a source of P.17/P.14 rifles. You will need to paint the red band on stocks yourself of course. 

Yes, Seen. I mentioned as such in the opening post. There's only two arms though for rifles.

The Home Guard also used very large numbers of water-cooled Browning .30s, as well as Lewis Guns.  They really did have an impressive amount of firepower (eventually).

Yep, all .30cal the ammo for the Home Guard. They also had assorted Marlin's in Quad mounts for AA defence all backed huge amounts of sub-artillery and explosives/IED's. Eventually they were also manning costal and AA weapons. They also had pretty decent training (albeit with a high churn rate), all of which makes them a very viable and potent War games force, to give the Germans a bit of a nasty shock. My local HG apparently had 112 Bombards.

[armchairgeneral]

Admittedly I don't have much knowledge on this area but wondered if there was anything in the Empress Miniature early 1930s/1940s range that would be useful?

You need to scroll down a bit to get to them

https://www.empressminiatures.com/great-britain-30-c.asp

[Listy]

Admittedly I don't have much knowledge on this area but wondered if there was anything in the Empress Miniature early 1930s/1940s range that would be useful?

You need to scroll down a bit to get to them

https://www.empressminiatures.com/great-britain-30-c.asp

Thanks for the effort, but they're all SMLE's. Although that Vickers Medium Mk.II has made me very happy!

[tin shed gamer]

I'll be dropping of the replacement Home Guard at 1st Corps next month. They do have P17's and a Bar. They'll be replacing the original Bobble heads that are what caricatures of laf members.

The current range does include.303's and the home guard adapted Air Craft Lewis gun.
Both of which did remain in service with the Home Guard and Yeomanry units. As several units were self funding and privately purchased weapons right upto August 1944.
I'll post some pictures on my workbench thread later this month as I'm working away at the moment.

[Iain R]

First of all, bravo on the comments on the misrepresentation of the HG in thd media, and the long shadow cast by Dad's Army on the public concience! Next we can talk about Blackadder Goes Forth and the subsequent public grasp of WWI...

Anyway, back to the topic at hand; if you're absolutely desperate and no actual P.14s are forthcoming, how about M1903 Springfields fanagled a bit to look like P.14s? At 28mm they'll be reasonably close, and it's certainly a more widely known gun, so probably easier to find in 28mm; I know TAG do one- it's a bit rough, but there are bound to be other options about...

The TAG one-
https://theassaultgroup.co.uk/product/m1903-springfield-rifle-x-10/

[Listy]

I'll be dropping of the replacement Home Guard at 1st Corps next month. They do have P17's and a Bar.

Oh thank god! I was about to start fishing around to see if I could get a 3d Printing guy to do a batch of 40 custom rifles! Welp nice to know they'll be the only game in town (Here's hoping they're correctly aged though).

First of all, bravo on the comments on the misrepresentation of the HG in thd media, and the long shadow cast by Dad's Army on the public concience! Next we can talk about Blackadder Goes Forth and the subsequent public grasp of WWI...

Anyway, back to the topic at hand; if you're absolutely desperate and no actual P.14s are forthcoming, how about M1903 Springfields fanagled a bit to look like P.14s? At 28mm they'll be reasonably close, and it's certainly a more widely known gun, so probably easier to find in 28mm; I know TAG do one- it's a bit rough, but there are bound to be other options about...

The TAG one-
https://theassaultgroup.co.uk/product/m1903-springfield-rifle-x-10/

I was actually looking at Garands, which have a very similar shape. I'd just need to trim the gas system back a bit, stick a large rear sight and cocking handle on...

[Red Sveta]

 A village HG platoon in 1940, for uniform age reference if its of any use, there are quite a few young men so the stereo type dads army image is not quite right. The sergeant/corporal was regular army trainer I think.