Considering a 25mm D&D project - will I have issues with terrain?

[Ozreth]

Most of my figures are 28mm, but I recently fell into some 25mm Ral Partha figures and have got an itch to start collecting old 25mm figures for D&D. Easy enough, but then I got to thinking about terrain that I could match with these figures. Now, how does much of the terrain on the market scale with 25mm? I know there is the option of making it myself, but I would prefer to get started by picking up terrain to paint that is already built. Dungeon environments are one thing and I imagine not noticable, but what about buildings, bridges, trees etc? How would you approach this?

Thanks.

[Mammoth miniatures]

Most terrain tends to be undersized for the figures it's made to sit alongside - so you might find that buildings actually have a far more realistic footprint if they're a bit larger than 25mm scale. certainly things like trees aren't worth worrying about since trees are so variable in size as to be almost scale neutral.

[Citizen Sade]

Agreed. Even furniture, fixtures & fittings etc. shouldn’t be much of a struggle these days with 3D printing and scaling adjustment.

[robh]

Not an issue except for pieces which are oversized for 28/32mm figures as well; mainly dungeon scenics like sacks, crates, bottles/jugs/casks and weapons/weapon racks. Nobody makes those in scale with the figures now so they will look even more oversized against 25mm than they do with 28mm.

I have the same issues with old school 25mm figures (although for Shadowrun rather than D&D), you quickly learn what not to use and to take advantage of the 3D printer's ability to downsize things.

[Ozreth]

Not an issue except for pieces which are oversized for 28/32mm figures as well; mainly dungeon scenics like sacks, crates, bottles/jugs/casks and weapons/weapon racks. Nobody makes those in scale with the figures now so they will look even more oversized against 25mm than they do with 28mm.

I have the same issues with old school 25mm figures (although for Shadowrun rather than D&D), you quickly learn what not to use and to take advantage of the 3D printer's ability to downsize things.

Was there a 25mm Shadowrun line in the late 80s/early 90s or do you just prefer using that scale for the figures you pick out.

[SgtSlag]

Most (98%+) of the 3D terrain out there for D&D is scaled to one-inch squares.  This dates back to the 1e AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide, 1979.  Gary eschewed using 25mm figures in the same book, and one-inch squares on the tabletop maps for figures.  I have built plenty of cardstock terrain pieces (TSR, Mage Knight, Worldworks, and Fat Dragon Games products), and all of those are built on the one-inch squares size ratio.

If your terrain is built for 28mm figures, it will just make the doors a little bit larger, and not really noticeable, on the tabletop.

Mage Knight Barn:  25mm Human (left), 54mm Cave Man/Hill Giant & Mage Knight Krugg/Ogre (both on the left).

Mage Knight House:  both Human figures are 25mm.

TSR free houses (removed from their website, 10+ years ago):  25mm Human & Mage Knight Krugg/Ogre figure.

Fat Dragon Games Temple:  all but the Fighter (right, 28mm), are 25mm figures.

Fat Dragon Games Castle:  25mm-28mm Humans plus monsters of varying sizes.

Fat Dragon Games Bridge:  25mm-28mm Humans with various monsters, on the bridge.

2D Dungeon Tiles: 

If you use 2D dungeon tiles, they are all (98%+) scaled to one-inch squares, as well.  You should not have a problem.  Cheers!

[Ozreth]

Snip

Awesome stuff, thank you. I was less concerned about the 1" square issue and more concerned about general height of things looking ridiculous, but your photos make it all seem still in proportion.

[Ozreth]

Awesome stuff, thank you. I was less concerned about the 1" square issue and more concerned about general height of things looking ridiculous, but your photos make it all seem still in proportion.

For your cardstock terrain, I assume you are printing on typical printer paper and then glueing to  pieces of cardstock before cutting?

[RSDean]

Was there a 25mm Shadowrun line in the late 80s/early 90s or do you just prefer using that scale for the figures you pick out.

Ral Partha; still available from successor company Iron Wind Metals: https://www.ironwindmetals.com/index.php/categories/cat-shadowrun

[robh]

Ral Partha; still available from successor company Iron Wind Metals: https://www.ironwindmetals.com/index.php/categories/cat-shadowrun

Absolutely, although there is evident scale creep between the earlier and later releases, not so much of an issue with meta humans, but is a PITA with the human characters.

Grenadier also had dedicated Shadowrun releases and other useful figures amongst their other ranges.

[SgtSlag]

For your cardstock terrain, I assume you are printing on typical printer paper and then glueing to  pieces of cardstock before cutting?

Initially, I printed mine on 110# cardstock.  The ink (at that time, I used an inkjet printer) was terribyl expensive.  My buildings did not withstand the rigors of gaming very well.  They were easily damaged.  When I lost one, I was out the high cost of the ink, and the time and effort to build them.

I eventually bought a color laser printer, believing the printing costs would go down, but unfortunately, they did not:  toner is around $100  per cartridge, and the printer uses four of them -- the printer, itself, with nearly empty starter cartridges, was $400.

Ink, or toner, you will end up with 80%+ coverage on the page, and that consumes a very large amount of ink/toner, draining your supplies quickly.  For that reason, I endeavored to find a way to make my printouts last for many a year, through many a game.  I print mine out on regular paper, then I use a glue stick to attach them to 3mm thick chipboard.  I had to figure out how to make joints differently, as folding tabs would not work.  I also switched from using PVA wood glue to Hot Glue:  faster curing, works as a filler, adds weight and heft to the finished models.  I go through a healthy amount of Hot Glue sticks.

Finished Bridge model.

Center Bridge Section underbelly, showing construction techniques:  wooden dowels to create the joints, Hot Glue filler.

Castle Towers and Wall Sections, upright and insides, showing their construction ribs, as it were.

The Mage Knight Barn construction ribs:  the wooden dowels also serve to reinforce the larger spans of wall sections, to prevent warping over time.

Here is the same MK Barn, upright.

The finished models are fantastic, IMO.  Worth the price, worth the effort, durable, hefty, and no PAINTING...  Cheers!

[Ozreth]

Initially, I printed mine on 110# cardstock.  The ink (at that time, I used an inkjet printer) was terribyl expensive.  My buildings did not withstand the rigors of gaming very well.  They were easily damaged.  When I lost one, I was out the high cost of the ink, and the time and effort to build them.

I eventually bought a color laser printer, believing the printing costs would go down, but unfortunately, they did not:  toner is around $100  per cartridge, and the printer uses four of them -- the printer, itself, with nearly empty starter cartridges, was $400.

Ink, or toner, you will end up with 80%+ coverage on the page, and that consumes a very large amount of ink/toner, draining your supplies quickly.  For that reason, I endeavored to find a way to make my printouts last for many a year, through many a game.  I print mine out on regular paper, then I use a glue stick to attach them to 3mm thick chipboard.  I had to figure out how to make joints differently, as folding tabs would not work.  I also switched from using PVA wood glue to Hot Glue:  faster curing, works as a filler, adds weight and heft to the finished models.  I go through a healthy amount of Hot Glue sticks.

Finished Bridge model.

Center Bridge Section underbelly, showing construction techniques:  wooden dowels to create the joints, Hot Glue filler.

Castle Towers and Wall Sections, upright and insides, showing their construction ribs, as it were.

The Mage Knight Barn construction ribs:  the wooden dowels also serve to reinforce the larger spans of wall sections, to prevent warping over time.

Here is the same MK Barn, upright.

The finished models are fantastic, IMO.  Worth the price, worth the effort, durable, hefty, and no PAINTING...  Cheers!

Very good advice, thanks! I recently pulled out the D&D Map Folio 3-D that I've had sitting around for 20 years and will soon assemble it.

[Ozreth]

So I've been looking at the old Ral Partha and Grenadier lines of the late 70s'-late 80's, but a new contender has been thrown in the mix. In doing research here I have found several references to the Citadel AD&D line of the late 80s. Now, several have commented that they are 28mm. However, this blog states that they are 25mm: http://solegends.com/rsadd/index.htm

Unless there is another Citadel AD&D line from the late time.

Basically, I am looking to choose a size for all of my D&D figures going forward, monsters and party members alike, and stick to it for coherence and visual appeal. I prefer the aesthetic of the 80s figures modeled off of the monster manual, and I really dislike anything bigger than 28mm, even what people call heoric 28mm verges on too big for me.

My fear here is painting dozens or even hundreds of figures as I dive into this in the coming months only to decide that for actual gaming purposes I have crippled myself by adhering to the 1970s-1980s ranges and 25mm when I suddenly hit a wall and can't find what I need for the game (we play fairly often and regularly, typically every week). But I like to collect things and the narrower scope of sticking to that time period and knowing that basically all the figures will look correct together is appealing. Also, we play in Greyhawk, which to me is the implied setting of the AD&D MM.

Has anybody had similar considerations?

[steders]

I own a big pile of grenadier, ral partha and Citadel AD&D figures.
The citadel are far bigger than either of the other 2 ranges and are on slotta bases.
Grenadier and RP will happily mix with the citadel Fantasy adventurers and Fiend factory lines.

[Citizen Sade]

Other considerations with regards to the Citadel AD&D range are some are hard and/or expensive to acquire plus it doesn’t include demi-humans other than a few Dwarfs and an Elf mage pack. On the plus side, it’s a lovely range and the demi-human gap can be filled by other contemporary Citadel figures. The BC1 Adventurers starter set, D4 Dwarf adventurers & C08 Elves, for example.