Descent into 2mm Ancients

[YPU]

Welp, I guess I've finally reached that age.

On various social media a user by the name of Hyvemynd who some of you might know has been posting progress pictures of their 2mm marian roman army and enemies and it reminded me that I had started a DBA Batavian germans vs romans project in 15mm but bounced of how few figures per base it still came down to (1-4 for infantry with DBA) but with 2mm, you can get a full army in a tiny space!

Reaching for my trusty golden hammer I went looking for 3d files to print and while there is some stuff out there, all with their own strengths they all also had shortcomings that made me think "I can do better than that".



So here we have 12x4 early imperial auxiliary, standing about 2.3mm tall to the top of their helmets.




 And enough of them printed and painted to fill a base to see how that looks. In DBA these would be "4ax", represented by a meager 4 figures on the base for 28 or 15mm. I'll do that with 4 of these blocks on a base instead.

Just another 6-10 unit types and 23 bases to design and paint before I have two playable armies. 

[Inkpaduta]

Those look very good. Good luck with the project.

[Pattus Magnus]

The first signs of megalomania! 

They look quite good and you’re right, these will give a much better impression of a 12 element DBA army representing an army. I am very much looking forward to seeing your project progress.

[YPU]

Cheers chaps!

Next challenge, archers! I'm unsure about these bows, but the spears are holding up well enough on the previous ones so the bows might be ok? Pushing limits here, I'll have to give them a test print and see how it looks and feels.

[fred]

The blocks look great painted up. You kind of need to go for 1:1 figure representation at this scale though?

Individual 2mm archers is pretty bonkers - hope they survive printing

[YPU]

The blocks look great painted up. You kind of need to go for 1:1 figure representation at this scale though?

Thanks! And yeah I get where you are coming from, but this is kind of where DBA hampers me, since every army is exactly 12 bases of figures. Truth be told I'm also not sure I feel like doing that deep research into exact numbers of specific troops at a specific battle. To keep the bar low enough that I might actually finish this project, I've decided on early imperial romans and Batavi germanic tribes since I live right in the middle of the relevant area for that. But from my cursory research we don't have hugely specific reports or data from the era. We know roughly how many troops were involved in the Batavi revolt, but not where or when which ones were involved in combat for example? (do correct me if I'm missing some data here!)

Individual 2mm archers is pretty bonkers - hope they survive printing

Its been done plenty in metal. You can find the army that inspired me to try this here: https://bsky.app/profile/hyvemynd.bsky.social/post/3lnmnc5s6jk2w or here:

[All credits to HyveMynd]

And you can see some individual archers in there front right row. Those are Irregular miniatures, pretty chunky and impressionistic, with their weapons blending into their bodies etc for sturdiness, but it can be done.
That said, for the roman archers they are supposed to be "4Bw" in DBA, which means a tightly packed formation, so I'm going to try and make rows of archers from these individual poses. With the Auxilery infantry I found it worked best to make some poses individually first, then copy them a bunch of times, mix them up and put them in rows for the formation. It gives a pinch of organic "alive" posing to what otherwise could be a very static block of models. I also scale a couple of models up and down by 10% for some height variation. Its hard to actually see, but I noticed that on 3d files from others it did really stand out that all heads were at exactly the same height. So its one of those things you don't notice if its there, but you will notice if its missing I think.
All that said, I'm hoping to make a formation of archers today and give them a test print (only 2 hours per print, very quick compared to any other scale)

 

[fred]

I was kind of kidding with the 1:1 representative scale - just trying to feed your megalomania

Those Irregular figures look much better than the ones I have seen - which I think are normally pike blocks.

Good thinking on small variance in size, will improve the look - as long as shields don't resize too much

[ithoriel]

I'm loving those archers!

My 2mm Romans are a mix of Irregular, Warbases' Antonine Miniatures and 3D printed resin.

I found the resin units, being composed of individual figures melded together, tended to disintegrate shedding small groups and individuals if so much as looked at sideways.

The metals ones were much easier to handle.

Now on to 1:1 scale! I use the 2mm stuff for Strength and Honour based on a non-standard 80x40mm base. Each of my four legions has around 600 heads. Given that an average legion of the Late Roman Republic seems to have had around 2,500 - 3,500 men that gives a ratio of between 1:4 and 1:6.

It wouldn't take all that much to get to 1:1. Obviously I'd need bigger bases and a bigger grid on the table.

"We're gonna need a bigger ... table!" 

[YPU]

I was kind of kidding with the 1:1 representative scale - just trying to feed your megalomania

Those Irregular figures look much better than the ones I have seen - which I think are normally pike blocks.

Good thinking on small variance in size, will improve the look - as long as shields don't resize too much

I've got too many big plans already thank you very much. 

Yeah I was impressed with those metals as well, I think Hyvemynd's painting is a big part of it but the irregular sculpting style fits 2mm better than most other scales.  And yeah I scaled the figures including spears and helmets, but not the shields!

I found the resin units, being composed of individual figures melded together, tended to disintegrate shedding small groups and individuals if so much as looked at sideways.

Now on to 1:1 scale! I use the 2mm stuff for Strength and Honour based on a non-standard 80x40mm base. Each of my four legions has around 600 heads. Given that an average legion of the Late Roman Republic seems to have had around 2,500 - 3,500 men that gives a ratio of between 1:4 and 1:6.

It wouldn't take all that much to get to 1:1. Obviously I'd need bigger bases and a bigger grid on the table.
 

With 3d printed models the brand and type of resin, printer settings, method of finishing (post curing etc) and further exposure to UV can influence their quality a LOT, I've had some absolutely crap printed figures over the years as well aye. And we really don't know for sure how 3d printed armies will hold up in 10-20 years! We might accidentally have created a miniature dark age, where most of the models have turned to dust leaving a gap in the historical timeline (most files will probably be archived by collectors though)


aah yes, I've looked at strenght and honour as well before. Now that I'm making 2mm stuff maybe I need to look again.  With grids you at least have a build in table size abstraction to hide behind though, for that 1:1! Which does remind me that I'll be needing camps and other dedicated scenery for the two armies I'm doing for DBA at some point. Some serendipity here though, when the Batavi are defending they have a mandatory waterway scenery element, which means one table edge/side will be a lake or very wide river. Luckily the shore elements I made last year fit the stated size just fine so that's sorted. I'll probably end up making a roman fort at some point though, doubt I can resist.



you can see the making of these here: https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=147298.0




Archers are on the printer as I type.




Bit uncertain if these will work as well as the spear wielding auxilery. But then I just don't have the insight for 2mm yet that I have for other scales, so its a learning experience. I wanted these to pretty dense blocks of figures to make their "4Bw Solid" status in DBA clear, compared to lighter more skirmishing archer units. But more then 2 ranks didn't look right in CAD. Just less clear posing for a formation of archers beyond the line of guys shooting I guess.

[kodiakblair]

 With grids you at least have a build in table size abstraction to hide behind though, for that 1:1!

Having been down the 1:1, 1:2 rabbit hole; I'll take Strength & Honour's grids and abstraction 

Maybe it's just me but I found Mark's entire Legion/ tribe bases look better on the table. In the attached photo, the figures are 1:2 but the ground scale is correct.
At contact a cohort with 8 ranks of 60 fills an area just 180 ft by 48 ft, here I used bases of 60mm x 15mm with figures in 6 ranks of 40.

 

[YPU]

Having been down the 1:1, 1:2 rabbit hole; I'll take Strength & Honour's grids and abstraction 

Maybe it's just me but I found Mark's entire Legion/ tribe bases look better on the table. In the attached photo, the figures are 1:2 but the ground scale is correct.
At contact a cohort with 8 ranks of 60 fills an area just 180 ft by 48 ft, here I used bases of 60mm x 15mm with figures in 6 ranks of 40.

Very nice! I agree the bases look fantastic. I think I have a initial desire for more fine control, 10 big blocks of legionaries moving as one unit feels very abstract at a glance. But then I have not played that game yet, maybe I'll really like how it flows!

[ithoriel]

Very nice! I agree the bases look fantastic. I think I have a initial desire for more fine control, 10 big blocks of legionaries moving as one unit feels very abstract at a glance. But then I have not played that game yet, maybe I'll really like how it flows!

I've found the rules to give a real "big battle" feel. I really like them, despite my law of averages busting ability to roll an absurd number of 1's in most S&H games.
"Homunculus sum!" 

[Mark Backhouse]

Nice to see so much love for 2mm and Strength and Honour. 2mm is a joy when done well as games look like proper battles in terms of formations and numbers a bit more in my opinion.

[Mark Backhouse]

Also great to go to town with proper looking towns, woods and hills rather than 5 houses or a couple of trees!

[kodiakblair]

Very nice! I agree the bases look fantastic.

Thanks, they look even better when they're painted up