Understanding the Old World setting - when did it go south for you?

[Rick]

So... i've never really paid much attention to the "warhammer world" but i remember with fondness a softback A4 campaign set in Lustria, with norsemen looking to loot a temple, lobotimised slaves, Slann and bolt pistols... all the "Chaos 40k" stuff was way past my attention span

I was thinking about this earlier today - the Slann were, I think, the first 'new' race brought into Warhammer (1st edition) through 'the Legend of Kremlo the Slann' and, later, 'the Temple of Rigg' with the tooled up Amazons (2nd edition maybe?) but these were articles in the Citadel compendium maybe - I think Lost Minis wiki might have a copy on the site or, at least, some information on it.

[AKULA]

I was thinking about this earlier today - the Slann were, I think, the first 'new' race brought into Warhammer (1st edition) through 'the Legend of Kremlo the Slann' and, later, 'the Temple of Rigg' with the tooled up Amazons (2nd edition maybe?) but these were articles in the Citadel compendium maybe - I think Lost Minis wiki might have a copy on the site or, at least, some information on it.

I think this might be the source of my constant confusion when it comes to Warhammer...40K etc... I have this voice on endless loop...

..."there are editions?"

Showing my age 

[Cubs]

...not that I like it, but it all happened for a reason.

It's true, but the original creators are not the ones who floated GW on the stock market, Kirby did. So it's not like becoming a cash-over-joy company just happened, it was the result of deliberate decisions made in the boardroom. The originals never seemed to see the need for GW to be anything more than a vehicle for people to have fun with great models and games, instead of a cash-generating machine that constantly needed to grow in order to feed itself.

[Rick]

I think this might be the source of my constant confusion when it comes to Warhammer...40K etc... I have this voice on endless loop...

..."there are editions?"

Showing my age 

Even the Venerable 'WRG Ancients' rules had editions - 7 I believe (although 1st edition did come out in 1969) so it isn't a new idea, just confusing if you're not in the loop. I got out of Warhammer around 5th so I have no idea what editions they're up to now and AOS is definitely just something that happened to other people! 

[Citizen Sade]

Eight editions of WFB between 1983 and 2010 then TOW in 2024. How long until 10th, I wonder?

The relentless release schedule was one of the reasons that I hopped off the merry-go-round.

[Gibby]

I always liked the world circa 5th-6th. I've discovered Warhammer Renaissance which blends the best of 4th-6th with sprinklings of 3rd edition - the rules are finished and won't change and the army supplement is free and full of great fun options.

The lore? Take what I like and ignore the rest really. I actually like the weird blend of colourful whimsy with the gritty underbelly, and I do think they gel weirdly well together. Colourful armies arrayed for battle don't necessarily exclude towns and frontiers having their dirty and gritty aspects, full of villains and rogues, etc...

When you're gaming among like-minded friends, the world becomes YOUR group's setting, hopefully informed by events played out on the tabletop. An open approach to narrative and an attempt to make the world feel alive means we will unchain ourselves from the codification of the lore, but without too much of an "anything goes" attitude that would threaten the right sort of flavour and cohesion.

I certainly have little time for longwinded Reddit discussions about how the latest Named Character feels about his emotional reunion with his returning Primarch Named Character, etc etc. Screw the story they want to try and tell me - gaming lets us tell our own!

[jon_1066]

It's true, but the original creators are not the ones who floated GW on the stock market, Kirby did. So it's not like becoming a cash-over-joy company just happened, it was the result of deliberate decisions made in the boardroom. The originals never seemed to see the need for GW to be anything more than a vehicle for people to have fun with great models and games, instead of a cash-generating machine that constantly needed to grow in order to feed itself.

Bryan Ansell developed WFB in order to sell more minis.  They were selling stuff for D&D but you only needed a handful of figures.  So they pushed WFB to flog more.  Having said that he didn’t put the accountants in charge of the studio.  That change came with the takeover, float and subsequent  descent into ever changing editions and power and scale creep

[Freddy]

It's true, but the original creators are not the ones who floated GW on the stock market, Kirby did. So it's not like becoming a cash-over-joy company just happened, it was the result of deliberate decisions made in the boardroom. The originals never seemed to see the need for GW to be anything more than a vehicle for people to have fun with great models and games, instead of a cash-generating machine that constantly needed to grow in order to feed itself.

Unbound fun is just a period which naturally ends sooner or later. 20something merry boys with mommy hotel daddy bank and beer as the only expenditure can spend infinite time and work on just-have-fun projects, but sooner or later they will have bills to pay and mouths to feed, and have to make the decision: turning the lovechild project into a moneymaker or put it on the backburner it in favour of a better paying career.
The "great generation" of the 80s RPG scene had to face this decision in the late 80s-early 90s.

Screw the story they want to try and tell me - gaming lets us tell our own!

Oh yes, another common misconception in GW ranks is that we need stories. We do not, we watch tv for that. We need a setting to play our own stories in. 40k and WHF was great in that, but now they are pushing for stories.

[Gibby]

All the years we heard people saying "They need to move the timeline forward!" etc as if it's an ongoing comic series. Now they've done that, we've got Marvel Avengers but with Primarchs. Boring. Galaxy feels the size of a shopping centre. It's the same with all the major nerd franchises now to be fair.

[Cubs]

Unbound fun is just a period which naturally ends sooner or later. 20something merry boys with mommy hotel daddy bank and beer as the only expenditure can spend infinite time and work on just-have-fun projects,

Do you think this describes Ian Livingston, Steve Jackson and Bryan Ansell? From my recollection they were middle aged men who had built it from the ground up, made any number of sacrifices along the way and kept it running as a successful business that was happy being a market leader instead of a market dictator. Or perhaps it was aimed at me, who by that stage was very much living on my own in a flat, working in a pub to pay the bills. But hey, some people do feel that money should always be the driving force behind a business and maybe they're right. But the change in flavour did show when Kirby took over and to answer the question, that was when it soured for me.

+1 on the Warhammer Renaissance train ... it ticks all the boxes whilst making zero money. Kind of like this site.

[Freddy]

But hey, some people do feel that money should always be the driving force behind a business and maybe they're right.

Yes, yes, money is eeeeeeevil, but you can not feed kids or buy houses with "having fun". So either sell out or put the fun on backburner (which does not mean to end it- just spend less energy on it). And yes, there are some lucky ones, who manage to find a golden path where they make a living while not selling out. All three exist, but the ratio is roughly about 65-30-5%.

[Rick]

Yes, yes, money is eeeeeeevil, but you can not feed kids or buy houses with "having fun". So either sell out or put the fun on backburner (which does not mean to end it- just spend less energy on it). And yes, there are some lucky ones, who manage to find a golden path where they make a living while not selling out. All three exist, but the ratio is roughly about 65-30-5%.

Maybe, maybe not. You get the impression from interviews with Ansell, Livingstone and Jackson that it was less and less fun as time went on and the business was growing beyond what they initially intended. I think they sold up mainly to avoid that big business, high pressure environment, with the money being a close runner-up.

[HerbertTarkel]

It's true, but the original creators are not the ones who floated GW on the stock market, Kirby did. So it's not like becoming a cash-over-joy company just happened, it was the result of deliberate decisions made in the boardroom. The originals never seemed to see the need for GW to be anything more than a vehicle for people to have fun with great models and games, instead of a cash-generating machine that constantly needed to grow in order to feed itself.

I once saw this movie, and according to a dude named “Gordon Gecko”…

GREED IS GOOD

I can’t remember how the movie ended, but I think Charlie Sheen was in it.

[HerbertTarkel]

Maybe, maybe not. You get the impression from interviews with Ansell, Livingstone and Jackson that it was less and less fun as time went on and the business was growing beyond what they initially intended. I think they sold up mainly to avoid that big business, high pressure environment, with the money being a close runner-up.

Jackson went on to do Steve Jackson Games, yeah? I loved those if that’s the same guy. He really did good stuff.

[Hobgoblin]

Jackson went on to do Steve Jackson Games, yeah? I loved those if that’s the same guy. He really did good stuff.

No - two different guys: one British and one American.