A Fistful of Grimdark: A 40k based Galactic Heroes Thread

[Maniac]

A few months ago I took a turn back into 40k minis when we broke out some for a game of Galactic Heroes.  Initially I thought I would paint up some Tyranids to use as monsters for us to fight playing co-op.  I certainly don't want back into 40k, the rules have progressively become a worse and worse mess coupled with GW and their need to obsolete everything every few years to keep you on a never ending buying spree.  Thankfully Galactic Heroes/Fistful of Lead is available to solve things.  We (my son/I, and my gaming group) use it for a lot of periods/games.  Outside of the many historic games with FFoL, I've got loads of misc. sci-fi and star wars stuff for it.  However, here is a chance to put models down for another titanic sci-fi franchise, 40k. 

We took our next leap at it when a couple co-workers who have played 40k came over and 5 of us played Marines vs Xenos (Nids/Tau/Dark Eldar).  I did some minor tweaks, but it got me wanting to field a number of factions we could pick from.

As such, I thought I would start a blog showing the various factions I have been working on using the Grimdark Codex.  Most of the codex is pretty good, but I felt it could use a few tweaks to capture  some of the older army lists/feel that I was used to.  This thread is meant to chronicle my crews/squads, scenarios, and some minor rules tweaks.

[BeneathALeadMountain]

Sounds great. FFoL is a ruleset I need to get into. Watching with interest.

Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain

[punkrabbitt]

Galactic Heroes is good stuff. A friend and I are using it for Star Trek klingons vs romulans tomorrow.

[Maniac]

Our first scenario did not play out as anticipated.  I thought I would write up what we did, and then possible ways to fix it (constructive criticism appreciated)

Scenario:  Find the Plans

Background:  A rim world has been developing a means to combat the Tyranids.  A potential biocide has shown promise at combating the invasion, and is proof against the tyranid ability to adapt and genetically change to meet new toxins/poisons/diseases.  Unfortunately this secret Mechanicus laboratory has been lost to them as various Xenos threats have discovered what they are doing here.  As such Imperial Forces have been sent in to recover them and wipe out the Xenos threat.

Win Condition:  Collect 3 of the 5 files needed to recreate the toxin.  They are scattered around the settlement so as to delay the invaders.  The tech priest who knows their location has been killed meaning both sides have to search the buildings to find them.

Team Alpha:  Imperium Aligned Factions:  Space Marines, Guard, Sisters, Mechanicus, etc.
Team Beta:  Xenos Aligned Factions.  Dark Eldar, Eldar, Tyranids, Tau etc

Map:

Align the buildings diagonally across the map (for this scenario we used a 6 x 4 table), with two cross streets running the opposite way but not perfectly aligned.  A central street runs through everything, while the spur streets can meander as needed.

You will need a minimum of 10+ structures aligned along the streets, evenly space so that no long edge is too close to more buildings that the other.

Players enter on the long board edge, and deploy up to either 6 or 12" from their 'home' edge.

On each building place a token, you will need numbers or letter on the tokens equal to the number of buildings in play.  Place these randomly.  1-5 or A-E will be the needed files, and the rest are useless code.

To obtain the code, the a player must move a model into contact with one of the buildings and spend an action to enter and search the computer.  This is a hard action, 8+.  Once a model secures the plans it must reach it's home side to deposit the files with waiting couriers/servo skulls/etc.


When we played, we had 3 space marines crews:

Blood Angels:  Lieutenant/Captain, Calidus, 3 Marines w BP/Chainsword
Raptors:  Lieutenant/Captain, Plasma Gunner, 3 Marines w/ Bolter
Ultra Marines:  Lieutenant/Captain, Heavy Bolter, 3 Marines w/ Bolter

Xenos:
Dark Eldar:  Archon, Kabalite Captain, 3x Cabal Warriors
Tyranid (experimental subjects for the Mechanicum):  Alpha, 2x Warrior, 3x Hormagaunts, 3x Termagaunts
Tau:  Commander, Stealth Suit, 3x Firewarriors

On paper this looked fine.  We had 3 Xenos players and 2 Marine players who would share the Ultra Marines.  In practice this scenario broke down while playing.  Folks had fun, but it ended up a completely lopsided scenario that the Marines had no chance at recovering from.  Their 4" move vs the Dark Eldar 6" and everyone else moving 5" was simply too lopsided given the unfortunate random layout of the tokens.

Everything started off fine, except the Dark Eldar quickly moved into contact with two buildings.  Both of these had plans in them, and they quickly found the 3rd plans needed before the marines could get half way across the board.  Part of that was the Blood Angel player wanting to have BP/Chainswords on all of his models, which I allowed.  This meant he couldn't even reliably send bolts down range. 

The Ultra Marines did manage to find one of the plans, and did manage to lay the law down with the heavy bolter, but 3 plans in Xenos hands within about 4-5  turns meant it was a pretty lopsided game.

The Kabalite Leader did make for an epic show down, taking on the Marine Lieutenant/Captain mano a mano for a bit.  He managed to knock the Marine down before getting swarmed by 2 other marines and ultimately all three took down the Xenos filth.  It was a pretty sweet battle, although we forgot to ignore the shock/wounds on the marines fighting.

On the other flank, the Tyranids pretty ruthlessly fired into and across friendly models/combats to mess up the Raptors.  All in All the Raptors managed to go out of ammo at least 3 times while returning fire.  They even lost their Lieutenant/Captain to a horde of Hormagaunts after softening him up with some shooting from the Termagaunts.

In retrospect, other than the silly number of out of ammo rolls suffered by the Marines, and a few mistakes on rolls (have to remember grunts roll a D8 on both attack and wound) the main draw back was the random data locations.  This meant it is entirely possible for one side to simply walk away with a win with almost no ability to get back in the game for the other team.

In retrospect, reducing it to 3 out of 5 buildings in the middle with tokens would work, or setup a com station in the middle of the board that you have to transmit the plans from.  This could take 2 actions (one to set the com station, 1 to transmit) for a model controlling the files.  Basically allowing the players to get to buildings within 1-2 turns meant that odds are they will quickly find at least 1-2 of the plans and just walk backwards to score easy points.  Forcing them into the middle will create more cinematic and 40k like firefights.  Ah well, chalk this one up to a learning experience that people still enjoyed.

[fred]

Sounds a good setup and concept.

I'd forgotten I've got the Grimdark supplement for GH/FFoL - so thank you for that reminder. I've been collecting random SciFi figures for a while now with the vague aim of using them for GH. But not sure if the rest of my group will want to do this, or would rather play Kill Team (or just aren't keen on skirmish games).

The placement of the collect objectives does feel they need to be more central to force conflict. But your's is hardly the first scenario with this as a problem - we did play a very good FFoL one that was a similar concept - but I can't recall the setup rules for the buried treasure tokens, it could well be in the core rules.

But I have played a few like this that didn't make good games - I think at KT one where you had to capture the McGuffin - and my Tau drones just jetted up the table, grabbed and wandered off again. And a Muskets and Tomahawks one where I had to scout the 4 quarters of the table (which just meant getting over half-way on both flanks) whilst the other player was focused on defending is homestead. A game with next to no conflict!

[dodge]

That sounded like a great scenario and even with a different ruleset the move issues aren't really any different.

What was your mechanism for finding the plans? Was it you entered the building and there they were?

Another mechanism for that would be to roll a dice for a search maybe D6 and on first roll you need a 6 and then progressively less by 1 until they succeed. It may be that they find nothing on a success roll if the plans aren't in that building. This negates some of the movement disparity as the players are spending longer searching for plans and might even things up a bit.

I ran a game a long time ago where you just found whatever it was when you entered the building and luckily it took them a while to find whatever it was but I think running a similar game now I would use that device for searching.

What do you think?

Dodge

[Maniac]

That sounded like a great scenario and even with a different ruleset the move issues aren't really any different.

What was your mechanism for finding the plans? Was it you entered the building and there they were?

Another mechanism for that would be to roll a dice for a search maybe D6 and on first roll you need a 6 and then progressively less by 1 until they succeed. It may be that they find nothing on a success roll if the plans aren't in that building. This negates some of the movement disparity as the players are spending longer searching for plans and might even things up a bit.

I ran a game a long time ago where you just found whatever it was when you entered the building and luckily it took them a while to find whatever it was but I think running a similar game now I would use that device for searching.

What do you think?

Dodge

The searching player had to enter the main door and search at a hard task, 8+, if they passed they successfully accessed the codes and could flip the token over.  On a fail they could try again for another action.

[Burgundavia]

This looks like a lot of fun, definitely something to watch.

Speed differences from 4" to 6" is huge. I'm not surprised the faster team did better, no matter what game you're playing. It is challenging to balance this beyond giving the slower team some sort of advantage.

[Maniac]

So the first of my 3 Marine chapters, the Black Sheep:



I've been on a long, slow project to reclaim a number of Rogue Trader Marines and mix them in with a few other figs.  I've got sufficient for several marine squads, a terminator squad, and a scout squad.  The Marines will typically be a Lieutenant/Captain/Sergeant with either a Flamer or Heavy Bolter Devestator, and then 3 Marines.

Which brings up the first of the lists I would propose some small changes on.

The new Grimdark list misses out on the classic devestator/specialist which was in the original 'grimdark' list from GH1 and the revised hardback.  Addtionally, one of 40k's most iconic weapons, the plasma gun/cannon is missing.

One of the gentleman I played with also asked about options for the Lieutenant/Captain as well as wanting to be more 'assaulty' with his Blood Angels.  So I would propose a few small additions to the rules:

Marine Chapters:

Blood Angels - may replace Steady with Thundering Charge
Space Wolf - may replace Steady with Ferocious
Black Templar - may replace Steady with Weapon Master
White Scars - may replace Steady with Thundering Charge
Raven Guard - may replace Steady with Dead-eye

Model Options:

Devestator Marine (Specialist)
Traits:  Deft, Strong, Armored
Weapons:  Choose one of the following:  Flamer, Heavy Bolter, Rocket Launcher, Heavy Laser, Maser, or Plasma Rifle

Tactical Marine (Regular) 
Weapons:  Any Tactical Marine may replace it's Bolter+Knife for a Bolt Pistol and Chainsword

Marine Captain (Leader) and Librarian (Leader)
Weapons:  The model may replace their bonus trait and chainsword for one of the following:  Power Sword, Thunder Hammer, or Power Fist


And ah, a plasma rifle you say?

Plasma Rifle (Leader/Specialist Weapon) - Short: 12  Long: 24 - AP1, Ammo Hog, Burst

This lets it burn through lighter armor, charge up the shot, and the Ammo Hog ensures it overloads nicely.

Then, in keeping with the fact we play the Out Of Action wound results as two wounds instead of an instant kill, I would propose Power Swords as AP1 instead of Deadly.  That keeps them from being abused in a list that might see more than 1 of them active at a time while still making them potent in combat.

[Maniac]

With that in mind, my Black Templar squad:

Captain/Lieutenant with a Power Sword and Bolt Pistol, Devestator with a Flamer, and 3 Marines (2 with Bolters and one with a BP/Chainsword):



And one of my squads of Raptors:

Captain/Lieutenant with a Power Sword and Bolt Pistol, Devestator with a Plasma Rifle, and 3 Marines

[Maniac]

Then some Xenos to combat:

Two players worth of Eldar Corsairs (Seer and Troupe Leader, a Ranger, a Screaming Eagle, and a Grim Reaper, plus various Guardians)





The nice thing is, these can easily be Dark Eldar as well.  So depending on the game I can run them as either.  Eventually they will also have options for a Shadow Spider (Warp Spider) and Howling Ghost (Banshee) plus some Wraithguard in lieu of Guardians.

Next up my Tyranids:

Alpha, 2 Warriors, 6 Termagaunts, 3 Hormagaunts 4 Rippers and a Ripper Swarm.  (they will eventually get 3 more Hormagaunts and 3 more Termagaunts, another Alpha, and a Lictor/Ravener, not sure I will ever get the other swarm bases done)



The individually based rippers let me split them up as grunts, while the swarm base will just count as all three grunts in one pile.

Some naive Tau up next:

Two Commanders, two Stealth Suits, and 6 Fire Warriors:



I do have some thoughts on some changes to the Tau list as well, but later.

Then lastly some WIP Necrons.  I hope to have two Lords, an Immortal, and about 12 Necron Warriors.  I bought most of these used for about 15 bucks, and will be working them up into a bronze/ivory schema.  I've got some clear acryllic rods from another project that I will try and replace the missing green ones with.

[dodge]

All looks very good, a real labour of love

[mikedemana]

I think all of the obvious fixes have been pointed out. I would stress one: never leave something as vital as objective placement up to random die rolls or draw. As the scenario designer you have to give both sides an even chance.

You can still categorize the objectives if you want a little more mystery. Say there are 15 possible locations in three rows of five (each side has one row closes to them, the middle row equidistant, and the far row closes to the enemy). Have one bag for each row. In the outer rows, there is only one correct objective marker and four dummies in each bag. In the middle row, three of five are correct.

You will need to make the buildings the same number of max movements away from each other, if they have different movement rates. So, the three rows may be closer to the slower side's board edge, but both take the same number of moves to get there.

Don't be discouraged. Scenario design, no matter how veteran of a GM we are, is always a work in progress.

Mike Demana

[Maniac]

Gearing up for a game with my son, something cooperative.

Scenario:  The Only Good Bug is a Dead Bug.

The Tyranids have arrived on Socorro 2, and cities are starting to be over-run.  The Imperium must get some high ranking civilians out of the area before the bug swarm kills everyone on this hive level.  The Imperial Forces will have to go house to house searching for the populace and get them back to the rendezvous areas.  Unfortunately the Tyranids are starting to come up from an under-level in the city and may also come pouring out with the vips.

Table:  6 x 4 table, urban environment with buildings all throughout.  Set one civilian on each building.  Imperials start on either of the long ends, up to 18" from the edge of the table. 

Place each Tyranid model on either a sheet of paper or next to a die with a number.

Rules:  The Marines must search each building to get the populace member in hiding out .  When searching roll for a hard task.  Success or fail the civilian pops out of the building.  On a fail, roll a dice corresponding to the Tyranid model.  If that model is already on the table take the next highest number and place it on the table (wrap around, i.e. if 1-6, a 6 would become a 1 and repeat).  This model/models have burrowed up from a lower level and are now in play.

Tyranids will attempt to kill the civilians first if no Imperial model is in range.  Otherwise attack the Imperial model within 1 move of the Tyranid.  When a Tyranid model is eliminated, place it back on the corresponding spot it came from.

Imperials win if they can get more models off the table than the Tyranids kill. 

Starting on turn 3 start rolling for each house the imperials have not searched.  On a hard task roll of 8+ the Tyranids come up as described above and the Imperial citizen comes out on the opposite side of the building, having been flushed out by the xenos.  Once two buildings have released tyranids, stop rolling for the remaining buildings.

Civilians may move towards a deployment zone under their own volition (they only get 1 action, and can never wound a tyranid) once an Imperial model has come within 1" of the civilian (once on the table).

The table:

[Maniac]

My son and I started the previous scenario today.  He took my Black Templars and I took a squad of Stormtroopers.  Coming in from either end we started off pretty well, securing several civilians without issue.



Unfortunately our luck shifted when my son rolled and the Alpha Tyranid popped out.  A plucky marine jumped forward putting a wound on the beast before it sliced him in half in close combat.  Following this the marshal blew it to smithereens with his bolt pistol.





On the other end of the map, I triggered a Lictor/Ravenor to pop up.  It promptly attacked the cilivian scoring a shock.  I responded by stepping back and shooting it in the shoulder for a wound



My son again triggered an incursion, and some gaunts popped out of the back of the building.  One templar moved up to a corner of an adjacent building and he took one of the three out.  In a following round of shooting I took out the Lictor/Ravenor.





Things again looked like trouble when rippers tore out right on my Sargeant and several civilians, when my son moved his flamer equipped marine up and lit them on fire.



On the other side of the table, the gaunts took out a fleeing civilian and wounded a marine before getting blasted to smithereens.



At this point I tripped the Alpha to pop out again, and it moved down an alley.  My flamer equipped storm trooper decided to try and buy some time in true movie fashion and scored a 10 to wound and the Alpha failed it's save!  Kill it, kill it with fire.



About this point we decided to take a break.  We'd moved about 4 civilians back into the deployment zone while the tyranids have killed one and are nearing a couple others..  The remaining buildings have all just popped tyranids, but it was closing in on dinner.

We did modify how the tyranids come out, and when we rolled the d10, the direction it pointed determined where it came out of the building.  This meant a bit more combat.