Longbow versus Crossbow?

[boneio]

But this is just for a game so not to be taken too seriously.  Laughter is expected in the games - and the first run out did not disappoint.  See my thread here on MA section of LAF.

Hear, hear! I did see that thread, looked fun

I've enjoyed the discussion, and I think it's perfectly fair that the consensus is that there's no definite consensus  If we actually knew everything about the past then interesting threads like this wouldn't happen. Paradox? 

[Von Trinkenessen]

If this is for a Robin Hood style game /campaign.
Traditionally especially on film one way of telling the sides apart was the 'gallant outlaws' using the long bows and the 'dastardly Norman henchmen' using crossbows.
fifteen if you are feeling devious paint up a uniformed contingent of longbow men for the sherriff's side commanded by an unscrupulous Sgt or captain belonging to Prince John or a yet as Unknown rival of the sherriff.
Also don' t forget the bunch off sherriff's men pretending to be outlaws
I am led to believe that you were more likely to see people with longbows or other styles of basic bows as crossbows were regarded as a strictly military weapon to be controlled.
I think the main thing to remember is that not all the archers are going to be master bowmen.

PS I remember as a child being taken to Hathersage to see a 7 foot grave , I wonder who???

[jon_1066]

...

Yes: the efforts to maintain or revive longbow practice run up into the seventeenth century; I gather there are some socio-economic arguments that a shift from yeomanry to sheep-farming tended to count against regular longbow practice, which would in turn have reduced the efficacy/availability of 'full-power' warbow archers.

They also weren't replaced by crossbowmen but by handguns. 

[Hobgoblin]

They also weren't replaced by crossbowmen but by handguns.

Yes, absolutely. And there are some interesting arguments about training there too: handgunners did need lots of training to avoid blowing themselves and others up - although perhaps nothing like the long-term training needed to perform well with the heaviest warbows.

In England at least, would it be fair to say that the warbow had "won" over the crossbow by the early 16th century? And that it was handguns that then won out over bows of any kind?

[Funkmachine7]

Yes: the efforts to maintain or revive longbow practice run up into the seventeenth century; I gather there are some socio-economic arguments that a shift from yeomanry to sheep-farming tended to count against regular longbow practice, which would in turn have reduced the efficacy/availability of 'full-power' warbow archers.

It was partly a tax grab as the king got the fines for not praticeing.
And secound a cost shifting, archgers paid for there own bows an ammo, gunners had to have there powder paid for.

The effective ranges of both are quite short once there armour involved, the energy to punch thru armour was lost relativy quicky.

There both fairly simple to make at the low power forms, but once you start upping the power you have to up the size or get complex in materal terms.

That makes composite bows and crossbows expensive items that need people to really look after them.
(it is possabile to just make the crossbow larger with a wooden bow, japanse where forced to follow that line and abandoned crossbow as unwiealdable)

Theres two of the castle related advantages of crossbows that people tend to forget.
The first is that you can use far larger pullys, winch an levers to spand them.
Secound crossbow bolts can be made without feather flechings and so are more rat proof, if your looking to store tens of thousands of bolts then a long storage life matters.

In england longbows where legaly a weapon that every one was ment to have under the law and practce with weekly.
But that level of kit, 12 arrows and the really low amount of practce legaly needed didnt turn everyone into robin hood.

the efforts to maintain or revive longbow practice run up into the seventeenth century

[Aethelflaeda was framed]

The other advantage of crossbows, which i have yet to see mentioned but might be great value to one of the Sheriff’s guardsman in a baggage convoy, is that the weapon can be carried around cocked and quite ready to shoot, while a bowman cannot.  I wonder how a longbowmen surprised at short range might fare in comparison.  This might be a matter of mere seconds but  those seconds might make a big difference.

[Hobgoblin]

The other advantage of crossbows, which i have yet to see mentioned but might be great value to one of the Sheriff’s guardsman in a baggage convoy, is that the weapon can be carried around cocked and quite ready to shoot, while a bowman cannot.  I wonder how a longbowmen surprised at short range might fare in comparison.  This might be a matter of mere seconds but  those seconds might make a big difference.

Yeah, good point: a crossbowman could be "on overwatch" in game terms, whereas a longbowman can't be readier than having an arrow on the (unpulled) string.

There's probably an argument, too, that crossbows are likely to be more accurate in a skirmish game (rather than when firing at bodies of men).

[Patrice]

Well, at least a few of you are focusing on the Robin Hood era of the question!

That's why I mentioned weaker longbows before the Late Middle Ages. In the War of the Breton Succession (early HYW) campaign I ran some years ago I suggested that in the first year there still could be some longbows but less powerful and nearly out of fashion in France ...till the English arrived with 14th C. longbows and in a few years the Montfortist (English allied) players could have hired some in their troops.

I gather there are some socio-economic arguments that a shift from yeomanry to sheep-farming tended to count against regular longbow practice, which would in turn have reduced the efficacy/availability of 'full-power' warbow archers.

I haven't thought of this reason but you may well be right (long ago I was a student in economics, I always like to think about the social & economical background of any type of troop to understand better - or to believe that I understand    what they can do)

[Rick]

Well, fifteensaway, if you want me to put it into Robin Hood (which was a later medieval construction by merchant guilds to sell Lincoln green cloth) terms for you, then the oppressed English (Saxon) peasants used the longbow, whilst the brutal Norman overlords used the crossbow - Robert of Loxley, being the last of a Saxon noble house, of course sided with his oppressed people against the Normans! 

[Cubs]

Plus, the longbow was cheap (at least in money, although it took the right piece of wood, a lot of skill and patience to make a good one), the crossbow expensive. That's why the good guys (poor oppressed peasants) had them and the bad guys (rich sneering gentry and their lackeys) had crossbows. Why Robin Hood had an American accent is a question for another day.

[Storm Wolf]

Why Robin Hood had an American accent is a question for another day.

Because he hadn't been in Waterworld yet?

[Rick]

Another good question is why he travelled from the south coast to Nottinghamshire via Hadrians wall? 

[Funkmachine7]

sorry wrong thread

[Dice Roller]

Nowhere in the OP does it mention this is for a Robin Hood game.
But if it's for fantasy then you should feel free to make whatever distinction suits the tone and feel of the game you want to create.
Don't forget the essential for any Robin Hood game, especially our American cousins. Accent and pronunciation:

[OB]

This from Helion released today might interest. I'm tempted but maybe not £30.00 tempted.


The English Longbow - Investigating a Myth Volume 1

The medieval English longbow has long been debated. The English Longbow – Investigating a Myth examines the arguments and offers a balanced account. It begins with a clear description of the weapon system – bow, arrow, and arrowheads. The book explores the origins of the longbow, the Shortbow–Longbow debate, and evaluates its effectiveness using recent research alongside contemporary accounts. It also looks at the role of the bow in the so-called ‘Infantry Revolution’ and considers its relationship with the crossbow.

Jonathan Davies