Crimson Eagles/Canvas Eagles/Pulp Dogfights

[Hawkeye]

Hello LAFers,

I'm here to pick your collective brains again. I recently downloaded the Canvas Eagles rule set for dogfights in the First World War, and I'm very taken by them. I also like the idea of picking up a load of 1:72 plastic kits and producing as many flying aces as I can! Clearly I'm a modelling magpie, and I'm easily distracted by the next shiny thing to come along.

For that reason, I'm trying to exercise a little restraint, particularly since I KNOW that the pulp air combat of Crimson Skies will probably appeal to me more in the long run than Canvas Eagles and WW1. However, the FASA rules, as discussed on another thread, are almost impossible to get now. I was much inspired by Michi's fantastic Crimson Skies: Shootout over Manhattan thread, however, so I'm interested in finding out more about Crimson Eagles, which as far as I can work out, seems to be a hybrid of Canvas Eagles and Crimson Skies. So, I joined the Yahoo Crimson Eagles group (something I rarely, rarely do - joining Yahoo groups, that is), and I'm just curious to know how active the group is. I don't want to wait for weeks for a response, or for none at all, when I could be quietly amassing a WW1 fleet of planes for Canvas Eagles in the meantime.

A further layer to the post is this - who here plays Crimson Eagles, and what's it like? Also, what planes do you use? I suppose a further question is this - would 1:48 be too big, for either Canvas Eagles or Crimson Eagles? I like the idea of personalising the 1:48 planes with Copplestone pilots, but if it's going to need a table that's 12 foot by 12 foot, I'll have to hold off on that particular ambition.

And finally, should I, instead of thinking of plastic planes, be working on my Lead Painters' League entries? Well, yes, of course, but what sort of gamer would I be if I wasn't letting every new thing I come across distract me from painting what I already have?

Thanks in advance for your feedback, everyone!

[Major Payne]

I'm only familiar with canvas eagles, and we use 72'nd scale plastic but if I were to integrate those rules with a Pulp game I would go plastic in 48th scale because it goes much better with 25/28s. There is a lot of plastic WWI aircraft available in 48th but most my favorite interwar aircraft are actually die cast. This creates problems when positioning air craft over a game board as they are very top heavy and difficult to represent in a bank or turn. 

It really depends on if you are going for a strait aircombat game or integrating limited combat between say two adversaries in the context of a scenario.  What did you have in mind?

[Hawkeye]

That's a good question, Major Payne. I had been thinking of integrating dogfights into a 28mm game, but I realised that there is a problem with this when it comes to the board. Canvas Eagles uses a hex mat, which would make placing terrain difficult (at least it would be difficult to balance the planes on their stands if there was any terrain under them). For this reason, I'm now thinking that straight air combat might be the way to go, and I'm leaning towards 1:72 plastic kits as a result. They are plentiful, they have lots of the WW1 models, and they're relatively inexpensive. Plus, as you point out, they are light, making them easier to position above the board.
I suppose that what I could do is play at 1:72 and decide from those games how the air combat rules might be combined with other gaming aspects. If I can think of a way to combine them, I can start to collect the minis in 1:48 at a later date.
How does Canvas Eagles play, by the way? I've had a quick scan through the rules, but it's always difficult to know at first. Is there a lot of book-keeping, or is gameplay relatively straightforward once you get the hang of it? How many models do you need to get two or three friends involved in it? A couple of models on the Allied side, a couple on the Central, and go from there? And what method do you use for the stands for the models? Dowels, or telescopic antennas?
Thanks in advance, by the way - the game looks like a lot of fun, so I'm looking forward to seeing what other people have to say about it!

[Major Payne]

72nd scale is a nice scale.  That's the scale we use for our Canvas Eagles campaigns.  (We're just starting our 3rd)  We've had over 20 players in a single game if memory serves correctly. The book keeping is minimal and it plays fast. We usually play 2 games in a long evening, say... 6:30 to 11:30 pm with a typical turnout of around 12 players. we generally play 24 turns per game. We use antenas mounted on some beefy brass bases.  Larry, the campaign organizer, had to purchace a large quantity of the custom antenas from the manufacturer overseas because he wanted like 10 levels, 3 inches tall.  I think he has some still available if interested.  As far as the stands, he may cut them him self from a hexagonal brass bar stock. 

The following link to our clubs website shows some air combat games in progress. The photos shown of the related games are of our 'House Version' which is modified to WWII called "DFC" but it may give you some ideas.
http://csga.webng.com/home.htm

[Hawkeye]

Looks like a good game, Major Payne. I had wondered about how adaptable the Canvas Eagles rules would be to WW2, so that's sort of answered my unasked question!

As for the antennas - I had wondered. I checked online and they're not inexpensive, particularly if you need 10 or more for a big game. If you could ask Larry if he has any left over that he's willing to sell, that would be great! Thank you. And yes, it looks like I'll be going with 1:72. My thinking is that even a dozen planes at that scale, plus the antennas and a cloth hex mat, shouldn't take up all that much space in the house, which would keep my wife happy. It's the only problem she has with the gaming hobby - the amount of space that it takes up!

Thanks again for the info on the game, and all your help!

[Major Payne]

Hawkeye
Sent you a private message the other day.  Don't know if it got through.  But Larry hasn't heard from you.  Still interested?  Send me a private message so I can send you Larry's E-Mail if still interested.  Want you to know I haven't dropped the ball on this.  Dan

[warrenpeace]

Hawkeye, a friend of mine went to an auto parts store and bought a big load of auto antennas for use with Canvas Eagles.

Another friend does not play Canvas Eagles, but uses another air game with hexes.  He made woods that fit along the hex edges.  He made hills that are hexagonal blocks that have a flat top with some painting on the top that makes it look a little bit like a hill, a top that is a little narrower than the base, and grooved sides.  You could make hill terrain that functions as a hex with a flat top, and yet still suggests a hill by the way it is sculpted and painted.  He also has tiny buildings in some hexes, but has to move them if a plane flies directly over that hex.  We also use terrain painted on our game mats for Wings of War.  No reason you shouldn't be able to paint on some terrain with a hex grid.

Have you seen the plastic Crimson Skies aircraft?  Those are quite nice.  They've been around long enough to be showing up at garage sales and in hobby store bargain bins.  They are about 1:144 scale, and so are compatible with Wings of War WW1 aircraft.  I'm pretty happy with the way that scale looks.  At 1:144 scale you can play a nice air battle on a 4ft x 6ft table.

Warren

[Hawkeye]

Nice idea about the terrain, Warren. It occurs to me that I should have thought of it, since I've seen games of - Battletech, is that what it's called? - which uses a hex mat but has hex shaped terrain tiles that sit on top of it, as you describe. I think I might have a go at that.
I've thought of 1:144, but before I go down that route, I've decided to use a few a 1:72 kits and see how I get on. I like the fact that the wings of war stuff, and the crimson skies stuff, for that matter, is prebuilt, so it's definitely a possibility!
Your set up sounds great, by the way! I'm guessing from the way you talk about it that it's a gun game to play. I'm looking forward to giving it a try!
And Major Payne - sent you a PM!