Help! What is VSF?

[Rob_bresnen]

This is a genuine question from someone new to the genre, but very intrested in the topic. What is Victorian Sciece fiction? And what is Steampunk?

I am planning a few models for the LPL, and have never painted, collected or played any games that would fit into what I imagine constitutes VSF . I am somewhat confused by the catagory, as I can't help but notice VSF and Steam Punk are in two different catagories on the forum, where as I thought they were one and the same.

So I got to wondering, what is VSF, and what isn't? A scan of the forum showeed me that John Carter inspired, space 1889 etc was definatly IN VSF, but what about the following...

War Of the Worlds
Steam-Mecha
Ironclads
Captain Nemo
The Invisable Man
The Island of Doctor Moroe
Jackle and Hyde
League of extraordenary Gentlemen
Wild Wild West
Journey to the center of the earth
The lost world
Frankenstien
Clockwork Robots
Chtulu by Gaslight

can you help me out by helping to define the boundry of the genre?  Thanks.

RB

[rob_the_robgoblin]

I'd say VSF is limited in a different way to steampunk.

VSF is limited to the period, or based on Sci Fi literature from the period, or intending on sounding as if it is from the period (Michael Moorcock's Warlord of the Air, Oswald Bastable series).
Steampunk is limited to the Technology. It has to be STEAM based. 

[v_lazy_dragon]

VSF is limited to the period, or based on Sci Fi literature from the period, or intending on sounding as if it is from the period (Michael Moorcock's Warlord of the Air, Oswald Bastable series).
Steampunk is limited to the Technology. It has to be STEAM based. 

Thats pretty much my take on it
From a wargaming note - Warmachine is steampunk, whilst the Parroom Station range is VSF...

[rob_the_robgoblin]

Yeah that fits the bill. 

[Thunderchicken]

As the other chaps have said VSF is limnited to the Victorian period so you have a rough historical base to work on but where you go from there is good fun. As Rob said Steampunk is limited to the technology rather than the period so even more fun! 

[warbeads]

Pre-Victorian Fantasy would be what?  Georgian?

Post-Victorian Fantasy would be... Edwardian?  I think I have seen that term on TMP...

[thebinmann]

Pre-Victorian Fantasy would be what?  Georgian?

Post-Victorian Fantasy would be... Edwardian?  I think I have seen that term on TMP...

"Forgotten Futures is Marcus Rowland's table-top role playing game based on scientific romances, the predecessors of science fiction that were published in the late 19th and early 20th century. "

Have a look at this, its great tuff and Marcusi is a great guy!

http://www.forgottenfutures.com/

For me the blurb on thz back says it alll: the discarded possibilities, the futures that could never have been, and the pasts that might have led to them!

Buy the book the clip art etc is amazing, as are the character names (Lady Janet Smedley-Smythe-Smuthe), quotes ("Isn't breaking and entering illegal?" "Don't be silly, we're gentlemen") and the Channel Tunnel adventure!

Its full of sources to the themes of the day: flat world, hollow world, onion layer world!

[thebinmann]

Buythe CD, its worth it (plus 10% goes to cancer research)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/forgottenfutures/cd-rom/cdrom.htm

[thebinmann]

Pre-Victorian Fantasy would be what?  Georgian?

Post-Victorian Fantasy would be... Edwardian?  I think I have seen that term on TMP...

That's right:

The Forgotten Futures CD-Rom contains all of the Forgotten Futures role playing material plus an expanding collection of Victorian and Edwardian articles, fiction, and illustrations in HTML format

Any way enough of the plugs, but it is good stuff!

[Rob_bresnen]

I'd say VSF is limited in a different way to steampunk.

VSF is limited to the period, or based on Sci Fi literature from the period, or intending on sounding as if it is from the period (Michael Moorcock's Warlord of the Air, Oswald Bastable series).
Steampunk is limited to the Technology. It has to be STEAM based. 

I think I get it, but let be check.
and so, judging by that criteria...

Victorian Scifi

The Invisable Man
The Island of Doctor Moroe
War Of the Worlds
Captain Nemo
Journey to the center of the earth
The Lost world
League of extraordenary Gentlemen
Space 1889
John Carter of Mars

Steam Punk
Wild Wild West
Steam Mecha

Am I on the right lines?
If so, what about these?

Jackle and Hyde
Ironclads
Clockwork Robots
Chtulu by Gaslight
Frankenstien

RB





[/quote]

[rob_the_robgoblin]

Yep, that's right.

The others, I would say are up to you.

Ironclads are VSF though.

[flooglestreet]

Steampunk, according to academics I can't find to quote right now, is an outgrowth of cyberpunk. The punk part is alienated heros/antiheros in a dystopian cybernetic future(cyberpunk) or a dystopian steam powered past. Steamboy is genuine steampunk, the technology is nonsense but the boy caught by plutocrats who have his family on a leash is pure steampunk. If you omit the punk in steampunk you will be doing what just about everybody else is (in wargaming,)but you will be missing a plot hook. The single most important touchstone is fun. If its fun, you are doing it right.

By the way, Leo Tech seems to be steam driven renaissance wargaming with da Vinci tanks.

have fun.

[answer_is_42]

Jackle and Hyde
Ironclads
Clockwork Robots
Chtulu by Gaslight
Frankenstien

Ironclads can go into both, but are a more Victorian idea, as are clockwork robots.
Cuthulu is neither, that's Gothic Horror. So is Frankenstein, and Jackle and Hyde.

To be perfectly honest, I find most 'steampunk' rather uninteresting and dull. VSF has the flavour of the period, which gives it an interesting edge, as well as a hint of feasability.

For example, a Land-Ironclad, (of the Wells type), manned by members of the RNLS, powered by a simple steam engine and supported by a platoon on your average British infantrymen, holds far more appeal for me than a 100ft tall iron mechanical robot, with a huge and impossible boiler, gatlings for hands etc. The former is completely  feasible, whereas the latter is not.

[Red Orc]

I figure it's up to you. My own take on VSF includes a good dose of what other people might call 'Steampunk', as well as a bit of 'Cthulhu by Gaslight', Sherlock Holmes and various other things.

On the other hand, I disagree with a lot of people here (and elsewhere) in what constitutes the difference (if any) between VSF and Steampunk anyway. If it's got airships/nefs, improbable steam technology, submarines and other mechanical marvels, it's fair game as far as I'm concerned.

Also, like 'League of Extraordinary Gentlemen', it might well contain references to fictional people as if they were real - one of the players in the current Atlantis campaign has just announced the arrival of Alan Quatermain, and there's a good chance both Sherlock Holmes and Anthony Cecil Hogmany Melchett will turn up, along with other fictional characters.

If you enjoy doing it, I wouldn't get too bogged down in what VSF 'really' is. It falls apart if you look at it too closely.

[Dewbakuk]

Basic answer = VSF is set in a particular time period. Steampunk is a 'style' of game.

They are not mutually exclusive, a game can be both Steampunk and VSF. Wild Wild West is a good example of being both.