[Rule Question] High Constitution

[Wasp]

Hi, I´am new and from germany, so my english isn´t realy good  but I have some questions.

My friend and I starting with the game a few day´s ago. At first, the rulebook is realy nice

Now my friend makes his Thershold List and his character have the following stats:

M:5/3 Dex: 4+ Con:7/9 A:3 W:2 Res:3+

Skills: Command (of course) and the free skill is Characteristic Increase Con +1

Extra Gear: Heavy Armoured Vest

Total BP 7 Points

Now I have a problem, I must have Dynamite or a .30 Cal MG in my lurker list to do damage to this character with range weapons. The most Lurker (even the Werewolf) can´t damage in close combat. Most have damage D+2 but no AP ability.

Sure, critical hits can do the job well, but it´s a little bit frustrating...

In the skill section I read the maximum constitution for Human´s are 8. Is this with or without the Armor!? A few games later the problem would be heavier to the lurker.

One more Characteristic Increase and Con is 8/10
than Tough and Thick Skin and Con rise at 9/11  that left my lurker shaking 

[D@rth J@ymZ]

It sounds like you have it figured correctly. 

I find that the Lurkers have better success against Threshold models if they either swarm and overwhelm each model in close combat or invoke Resolve checks (or ideally both at the same time...) Lurkers tend to be worse at shooting than Threshold, so I go with better odds and use either psychology tests or close combat.  Pick Lurkers that have these special rules: Fear, Hideous or Terror.  The more Resolve checks you cause a Threshold player to take, the better the chance that he will fail one!    Once the Threshold model is 'face up' or 'face down', run in as many (or as big) Lurkers as possible, and finish the job.

Also, you can upgrade Lurker models by 'buying' them 1 pt weapons like cleavers.  A group of cultists armed with cleavers provides a multiple chances (CC bonus +2, damage D+2, parry and AP1).  With each additional model in CC gaining +1 attacks, they can stack up fast and are only 2 pts each.

But if you really want to shoot with a lurker, take the AP skill with a double barrelled shotgun and shoot within 6" to cause D+3 damage (and AP1).  I like to sweeten the deal by giving the 'Crackshot' skill that would increase the damage to D+4 (AP1)    You need Dex 3 as a pre-req so Cult Leader and Fishman are both economical for the points cost. 

[Uncle Mike]

Hey Wasp,

You are correct, that is possible. As Darth James (Thanx, b.t.w.) has said there are many ways to 'solve' your dilemma. I find working down the weaker models in the list to make the Character take more Resolve tests is a good tactic...also, engaging the Character to prevent him from using his Command both work well and should help to gain you the upper hand. If you must shoot then all the previous ideas are good ones...many of the Human lurkers in the expansion (Shocking Tales) are easily upgraded to be 'shootier' than the ones from the main book as well.

Also, let's not overlook some of the tougher monsters once your opponents points have risen a bit. The 'Winged Nightmare' is a particularly nasty beastie.

Without going into too much more detail let's just say that there are various nefarious death dealing tricks in the Lurkers corner...you must figure them out and crush the life from your enemies!!! 

[Breten]

Also, listen to D@rth J@ymZ, if his dice aren't loaded, he must actually know the game.

[D@rth J@ymZ]

Also, listen to D@rth J@ymZ, if his dice aren't loaded, he must actually know the game.

A poor workman always blames his tools...

[Wasp]

Hi @ all and thx for the answers.

The shooting is one problem, but the closecombat stats from non human lurker are another. Even deamons cannot damage the charakter.

I will try it with a house-rule/custom rule:

Armour and the skill "Thick Skin" dosn´t increase Con but give a bonus (equal to the Con bonus) to the dice rolled on the injury table.

The skill "characteristic increase" works in the old way and Con can be rised to 8.

The backround to the rule is that Armour in the first way didn´t stop damage but prevent from long time effects. When a bullit or strike dosn´t penetrate the armor the energy from the attack didn´t pop off. There can be broken bones, or contusions and so on and the pain takes the model out of the game. But recover from these injurys is not so difficult like it is to recover from a bloody, deep bullet wound.

An example with the charactar from the starting post:

Con 7/heavy armour

the character fights a night-gaunt and loose, damage is rolled:
5+2 = 7 against Con 7 the character take one wound
next round the character loose again, damage rolled:
6+2 = 8 against Con 7 the charakter take the last wound and the lurker get´s a bonus +1 on the injury table.

Now the heavy armour comes in the play +1 from the Strike -2 from the heavy armour give a result by -1 for the lurker player. he rolls his dice and score 2+3 = 5 -1 and the end result is 4 (model place Face Up)

At the high-end character with "Tough" and "Thick Skin" with the example from above the charakter have a very good chance even to survive the worst wound.

The bonus at the injury table is than Heavy Armour +2 / Tough +2 / Thick Skin +1 =5 Without damage that overhelming the con the worst result can be a Minor Injury.

The AP Ability negate this bonus on the injury table like it would do with the "con" bonus.

I would playtesting this modifikations to the rules in a few games. I think it dosn´t disrupt the gamebalance to much, but so the charakter isn´t to save but still life on even after hard fights.

greets Wasp 

*Lol* I hope you understand what I would say

[jnr]

I agree with both  D@rth J@ymZ and Uncle Mike, the system is there to upgrade the lurkers to your liking, early on in the game you can give the Cult Leader with a rifle the skills lighting Fast, Armour Piercing, Crack Shoot and lower his dex to 3 and you will make mincemeat out of that 7/9 character, and as Uncle Mike say there are AP3 weapons in the expansion Shocking Tales.
As it stands even the Werewolf can cause a wound, but you would need a roll of 6, not a crit but the 6 will give you a chance to get a crit, plus why take a Werewolf, for 20BP you can take the Blasphemous Construct.
Any agent that is Catatonia or Unconscious e.g. face down in close combat is removed as a Major Injury, so you need to get them luker with Hideous into CC, Fear within 5" or Terror within 10" at -2 to there resolve,best thing about psychology is it does not matter how many wounds you have or what armour you wear if you roll Catationa on the Insanity table your off in CC.
The game is not made to knock of the main character early on in the game, let him build his band of heroes, then show him what real nightmare await for him.

[Wasp]

I agree with both  D@rth J@ymZ and Uncle Mike, the system is there to upgrade the lurkers to your liking, early on in the game you can give the Cult Leader with a rifle the skills lighting Fast, Armour Piercing, Crack Shoot and lower his dex to 3 and you will make mincemeat out of that 7/9 character,

Why Armour Piercing!? The Rifle has always AP 1 and the Skill Armour Piercing give ervery Weapon an AP 1 not an +1 AP, right!?

Crack Shoot okey that´s works on a 6 but with the next Con Incrase even a D3 weapon bounce of from the target.

It´s not my intention to kill the character early in the game, but to end a mission all thershold personal must be removed from the table. Should the lurker player only be a good victim!?

I understand that the special effects like hideous, Fear, Terror can help to overcome the good guys. But why should a player fear a Lurker (beside from the game effects) when his starting character are unharmed from their attacks.

As it stands even the Werewolf can cause a wound, but you would need a roll of 6, not a crit but the 6 will give you a chance to get a crit, plus why take a Werewolf, for 20BP you can take the Blasphemous Construct.

How can a Werewolf without a crit do damage to a 7/9 character!? D+2 = max 8 against con 9!? There are no skill that would increase C.C.Weapons or claws (or can be martial artist upgrade claws -> I understand "unarmed" as realy unarmed not with claws). And a Werewolf with only 1 Skill cost 3 times the BP´s off a starting character. I think too mutch only for the special Hideaous when this special alone makes the difference to overcome the armor from a 7BP character.

Any agent that is Catatonia or Unconscious e.g. face down in close combat is removed as a Major Injury

Unconscious isn´t not realy likely for a character that can´t be damaged. No damage, no role at the injury table. Catatonia okey when the character miss the 3+ and than role a 1 on the Insanity table...is that a good chance to win!? I think no...

I order Shocking Tales a few days ago, but from the USA I have to wait 6-8 Weeks befor I can read it 

[LidlessEye]

If your copy of Shocking Tales went out by Canada Post small packet service (which they usually do) you shouldn't have to wait anywhere near that long for delivery, unless of course it gets tied up in customs at your end.

From the sound of things, your friend is loading all his equipment and skills onto a single character.  While this does result in a single very powerful model, it also tends to mean the rest of his agents/civilians are quite weak.  Even if you're losing games as the Lurkers, if you continue to take out those supporting models, he'll soon find himself in a position where he won't be able to replace them during re-equipment, eventually leaving him with one lone (and very slow-moving) character to face whatever high-powered beast you choose to put on the table.  So yes, his tactics may make him unstoppable for a while, but it's not going to be able to last.

[jnr]

You missed out the fact that the Werewolf has a AP1 this drops the character to 7/8 in the next game you may be 8/10 then the werewolf will have one BP to play with he can take the skill Destroy Weapon this includes armour, so you end up being just 8 and he back to hitting you on a 6, when you get to 9/11 then there will be lurkers worthy of you.
Plus even if the werewolf does not kill you he may make a mess of your agents.
Most of the smaller type monsters will not be able to damage when you are 9/11 but sooner or later you will get lucky and get a 1 on the insanity table.
And don’t forget the lurkers have some nasty evil spells to use on you.
I think the learning curve of the game leans towards the agents, to give you time to build your group up, other wise you may never have enough BP to reach the higher BP lurkers, the one that will bye pass you 9/11 character stats.

[Wasp]

If your copy of Shocking Tales went out by Canada Post small packet service (which they usually do) you shouldn't have to wait anywhere near that long for delivery, unless of course it gets tied up in customs at your end.

I wait for Strange Aeons 8 Weeks. My favorit Dealer explain the delivery can be 14 day´s or so. At the end it would be 8 weeks. I don´t know why but I hope this time you are right and I can hold it in my hands in a few day´s

You missed out the fact that the Werewolf has a AP1 this drops the character to 7/8

Oh, I understand the rule in another way. "...If the weapon is used against a target whose Armour has a Constitution bonus equal  to or lower that the AP of the weapon, the Armour may be ignored..."

When a Model have a armour 1 than a Weapon with AP 1 negates the Armor. When a Model have a armour 2 than a Weapon with AP1 change nothing. The Armour exeeds the AP 1 value of the Weapon. Only a AP 2 Weapon can negate a armour with rate 2. I didn´t read the rule in that way, that the armour be reduced at the rate of the AP ability of the weapon.

[jnr]

My apologies I thought you know that, but here is a link to a post that clears it up bye Uncle Mike

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=13040.0

[D@rth J@ymZ]

When a Model have a armour 1 than a Weapon with AP 1 negates the Armor. When a Model have a armour 2 than a Weapon with AP1 change nothing. The Armour exeeds the AP 1 value of the Weapon. Only a AP 2 Weapon can negate a armour with rate 2. I didn´t read the rule in that way, that the armour be reduced at the rate of the AP ability of the weapon.

Armour that provides a +2 CON bonus only provides +1 CON bonus against an AP1 weapon.  The AP1 essentially reduces the protection of the armour to only +1 CON.

[Wasp]

Mhhh...I dosn´t search the forum for all rules The rules to the armour looks clear for me, but to err is human.

I think somtimes the rules read a little bit confusing. But over all a very good small tabletop with nice minis.