All You never wanted to know about RURITANIA and were not bothered with before

[Plynkes]

former user, "mush" is one of many Romani words that have become English slang (like cushty, chav, pal, gadgie, etc.).

It means "friend."

[Poliorketes]

Just to give a possible bridge between the book and 20th century - take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Republic_of_Schwarzenberg
The story of the free state Schwarzenberg, part of Saxony on the Czech border, was immortalized by Stefan Heyms novel.

[Captain Blood]

I am not exactly sure what "Mush" means, nor the reason I am adressed in this way.....

It's an old Anglo-Saxon term used to indicate affectionate irritation.

You can also join in constructively if You intend to take part in the project

Thank you 

This is meant to reduce useless discussion

A good aim. Too much useless discussion creeping into the LAF of late.

In general I tend to get tired if someone (like Red Orc in this case) has a good idea and others start to crossfire about why this and that can't work WITHOUT offering an alternative (this is destructive IMHO)

Yes, that can be rather tiring. I'd better butt out. You chaps enjoy your conversation.

Will you be producing miniatures, terrain and models for this setting, former user - or is it purely a theoretical exercise? (That would be a bit absurd methinks).

Butting out now.

[Red Orc]

maybe You should specify "unconnected"
different states?
common borders?

when unified (common ruler), when not?...

Maybe what I meant wasn't very clear. I meant to suggest that they were the eastern and western territories of the House of Elphburg. They would be geographically distinct, one based around the Duchy of Streslau, between Prague and Dresden, and one based around the ... what, Voivodinate (?) of Molvania, in the vicinity of Transylvania somewhere.

This situation could have arisen because the royal house inherited or was granted two different lands (in the same way that the House of Hannover ruled in both Germany and Britain, or the Danish royal family was established in Greeece), or it could be that at one time the Elphbergs (or whoever came before them) controlled all the land in between (Bohemia, Slovakia, and Hungary too).

Perhaps the Elphbergs are not so German after all; perhaps 800 years ago they were Hungarian or Slavic, for instance, and the two surviving bits of 'Ruritania' were part of the territory of the Grand Warlord Roradan who was given the lordship of Elphberg (wherever we may decide that is) by the Emperor, and subsequently the lordship was mostly lost except the bit nerar Streslau and the region of Molvania, but in those places people still remember that family of Elphberg rule the lands of the patrimony of Roradan (which is rendered 'Ruritania' in Church Latin)...

...of course they are basically different with language and all, but hungaria and austria?

how about the alternate timeline?

The alternate timeline from whenever we want to start it is very flexible. I'm in favour of roughing out the details at least from about the Turkish invasion of central Europe. I'm not sure going back any further is useful, but if someone wants to elaborate a history of Ruritania in the Middle Ages I won't try to stop them. But for the purposes we're after (VSF through to Interwar years if we can do it) at least having a background that goes back to the Napoleonic reorganisations of Europe seems necessary, and Spong seems keen to go back into the 18th century.

In general I think we should stick to the 'givens' of European history, but where we can do it I think it it would be fun if we can find a way of including other fictional European countries (eg Grand Fenwick, Graustark, and Molvania) as enemies, allies and territories (or all of them) of Ruritania. This may involve some juggling, but I think we can do it. I'm certainly game for trying.

[former user]

it sounds good, but I would favour a common border, maybe around a lake?
Including Grand Fenwick is of course a must.

So what we have for now is the House of Elphberg, that ruled Ruritania and freed Molvania from the Turkish rule... ??

And the VRCW is about Molvania becoming nationalist/communist etc, with involvement in the RCW?

[Hauptgefreiter]

it sounds good, but I would favour a common border, maybe around a lake?
Including Grand Fenwick is of course a must.

Fenwick? 

[former user]

Yes, exactly that one 

[Arlequín]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Ruritania had actually annexed Grand Fenwick... 

[Red Orc]

Aetheric Mechanics, by Warren Ellis. There's a thread about it here, which bizarrely doesn't mention the occupation of Grand Fenwick; but by implication it's after the events of 'Prisoner...' and 'Rupert of Hentzau' and is has been reversed by the time of 'The Mouse that Roared'. So maybe early 20th century?

[former user]

no problem with that

Molvania and Great Fenwick joined Great Ruritania in the late 19th C*, but after the Ruritanian Civil War all was reversed, and then Great Fenwick tried to get occupied by USA after WWII, while Molvania joined the Nazis and were occupied by the Soviets in turn. Many families were reunited only in 1989 after the Molvanian Segregation Wall all broke down, but not because of politics, but because the Molvanians had built it of mud bricks   

or something like that...

* actually, the United Principate of Molvania was ruled by a Molvanian prince before, but the family died out, and after a short and bloody reign of a mad sorceror the Molvanian nobility asked to be ruled by Rudolph of Ruritania, and gladly sealed the oath of loyalty in the traditional Molvanian way of urinating on the carpet.

[argsilverson]

some more ideas here:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=194754

[draxx66]

Being new here please be kind. 
But I seem to remember the George MacDonald Fraser novel "Royal Flash" being based around the "Prisoner of Zenda" Flashman even claims that he told the story of his exploits to the author and thats where he got the idea. There might be some usable info located in there.

[former user]

THX for the ideas

quite useful links Argyris

also from draxx66
don't know the book, allthough there is some fiction that pays hommage to the original
wonder how close it is

anyone read it?

[Red Orc]

Captain Blood has.

In other news, I thought I'd post a work-in-progress pic of my 'Ruritanians' so far - ignore the cowboy, he's probably going to be an adventuring balloonist at some point, but the others are the West Wind Tsarina, Tsar and a Zendarian Vampire Slayer. The Tsar and the Vampire Slayer are 'supposed' to be the King of Ruritania (probably the one after Rudolf V, or even the one after that, I've called him Albert II for the time being) and Colonel von Kartoffeln-ohne-Umlaut, an officer. They're both supposed to be wearing mustard jackets in line with my earlier plan to have the Ruritanian infantry in mustard jackets...



It strikes me that the Tsarina could in fact be the Grand Duchess of Fenwick. Or Molvania. Or somewhere...

[Red Orc]

Well, I could have just edited this onto the end of my last post but where's the fun in that?

First - I still haven't been able to get 'Prisoner of Zenda' from my library. Apprently it's there, and the library will be open tomorrow, but what with the Easter holidays and the stupid inter-library request system it's taken them weeks to actually get a copy.

Second - I have managed to get a copy of 'Aetheric Mechanics' by Warren Ellis though - link to the discussion started by JollyBob a couple of weeks ago - but there isn't much info about Ruritania to combine with what we already have. I'll sumarise that here:

1 - Britain is at war with Ruritania, and has been for at least 2 years (the book is set in 1907); there is a front in France; Britain is losing the war.
2 - Ruritania has huge walking battle-platforms, perhaps 60 feet or more high, bristling with large-bore guns; it also has many monoplanes (whether these are crewed or not is difficult to tell, we never see any Ruritanians).
3 - Ruritania has annexed Grand Fenwick, seemingly recently (since the war began perhaps); they have ships capable of inter-planetary flight that are attempting to break a Britsh blockade.
4 - the Ruritanian warmachines appear to have two devices on them; one is a flag, which seems to be divided into two halves by a narrow vertical bar, then the right-hand section is further divided by a horizontal bar. In the left half is a device that looks like a dragon or serpent swallowing a person, surmounted by three 'balls' and a crown. The right sections seem to be darker in colour than the right (suggest green and red?). The other device is a dark-coloured St Olaf's Cross.
5 - 'Prisoner of Zenda' is mentioned; we can assume that it's part of Ruritania's history.
 
That's about it, I think, the sum total of the info to be gleaned on Ruritania from the book. What do you supppose we should make of it?