All You never wanted to know about RURITANIA and were not bothered with before

[former user]

sounds interesting
However, there is a major alteration to the OT (original timeline)

What the hell happened with Germany? are they waging war through Germany?
Otherwise, the story sounds like an early WWI - Britain vs Germany escalation with Ruritania taking the place for Britain.
Spaceflight - well, why not 
The technology jump however appears a bit harsh to me...

let's extrapolate a bit -
1907, The Russian Empire is at the brink of Revolution, there is a major breakdown (Maybe Russia has conquered Prussian Germany and Ruritania has expanded into parts of it?) and the Revolution spills over into Great Ruritania, thus effectively ending the War with Britain by request of a ceasefire.

And there we have it: The Ruritanian Civil War, a bit early, but it could continue for longer, with Bolshevik attempts at carrying Communism over.

How about that?

oh yes, and You did not mention the time plot - leave it out?

[Red Orc]

Well, my reading is that in this timeline Ruritania 'is' Germany.

Unfortunately the book is only about 40 pages long, and most of that is taken up with a Sherlock Holmes-style detective plot; the war is merely the background to that, and explanations of events of the war only cover about 6 pages at most (and I think five frames of actual depictions of Ruritanian war-machines). But yes, it appears to me that in this timeline Ruritania has probably unified Germany; Grand Fenwick might then stand for Austria.

Oddly, Einstein is mentioned as a 'young German natural philosopher' - that might imply that there is a 'Germany' seperate to 'Ruritania', or it may be that 'Ruritania' is the state, and 'German' is a linguistic or ethnic description.

If we want to run with the idea of incorporating this timeline we'll have to abandon the idea of running anything like a 'real' 20th century, I think. It's easy to add it to a VSF world - a quick way to do it would be something like 'French superiority with Vernesque devices leads to Prussian defeat and humiliation in 1871; Ruritania (Saxony-plus-Western Bohemia) unites German kindoms (and part of Austria-Hungary?) into (Grand) Ruritania (includes Molvania, but not Grand Fenwick). Arms race ensues between France, Britain, Ruritania, (Russia and Ottomans too?); war breaks out in 1905. Whether this war then leads to revolution as WWI did, yeah, why not?

But; it's a big departure from 'real' history. I think we should hold off from committing ourselves at present.

Really it's the heraldry I'm interested in at present!

[former user]

the idea sounds good
yes, there should be some "Prussian Germany" in this timeline

this way, we could merge WWI, Interwar and WWII into a great european civil war

However, You are right, a bit of contemplation can't be wrong 
and miniatures painting from my side

I've peeked into the 2 movies, and apart from both being almost identical to the shot, everything needed is there.
Noticed the camera sliding towards Hungaria and Romania in the opening of the 1937 Version?...

Molvania should stand for the unimportant eastern province and not gain too much importance, like Galicia for Austro-Hungaria. As to the dual Monarchy itself, I don't think it equals Grand Fenwick. Maybe both countries split up and Austria became part of Great Ruritania, without the German unification.

In this version, Ruritania can't be a small country anymore, with Britain at the brink of defeat and some "French Front" mentioned.
I also think that the SF element should be toned down a bit. Aether Mechanics is nice, but no need for TV and monoplanes actually. These would look a bit weird with Zeppelins, interwar tanks etc.

If air travel goes along Zeppelin lines, planes should not develop that quickly.

My thoughts...

Here to my miniature plans
passenger train (Molvanian railways)
Zeppelin airforce, a few biplanes, small fleet
and a steel bridge, sponsered by King Rudolph to connect Ruritania to it's new province, decorated with statues of the king's own Molvanian Hussar Regiment, a newly founded Regiment to serve the king 

Yes, and the units I mentioned

[Red Orc]

...
.... It's about 100km (60miles) from Dresden to Prague - too small for a reasonable  'kingdom' to fit in there but certainly enough space for something bigger than Lichtenstein (24km long). If we assume Ruritania includes some land on both the current German and Czech sides of the border, we than have to posit that Ruritania isn't pure German, but as the Czech area was part of the Sudetenland anyway, what we have is a bit of Saxony that is mostly German with some Sorbs, and part of Bohemia that is mixed Czech/German. That doesn't seem a vast problem to me.

I'd then suggest the two north-western-most districts of the Czech Republic (around Ústí nad Labem, and Karlovy Vary) and the bits on the German side between the current border and Pirna, Dippolswolde and Marienburg, more or less. That would give us a stae about 40km wide and nearly 100 long...

Re-reading 'Prisoner...' I was struck by a passage (that I now can't find of course) that says that it's 40 miles from Zenda to Streslau and Zenda is 10 miles from the frontier. Taken at face value, that makes Streslau more than 50 miles from Dresden (because Dresden is still in Saxony, we presume). That means Streslau almost certainly isn't in the Sudetenland (unless you travel south-east from Dresden to Zenda then north-east or south-west, parallel with the German-Czech border). Nor can it realistically be 'between' Desden and Prague. I'd hazard that Streslau is Prague.

So, it seems impossible to follow all of Hope's geo-political descriptions. If Ruritania is a German-speaking country bordering Saxony, not far from Dresden, then it seems it is an ethnically-cleansed German Bohemia.

This might mean the existence of Molvania is easier to explain - it's Slovakia under this interpretation; but that's fairly unsatisfactory I think as a general way of takling the problem of where Ruritania is.

Any thoughts, alternative interpretations etc?

[former user]

hmm....

pre 1870 Ruritania appears to be very small.
I wouldn't bother too much with the historical accuracy, we can simply stuff it somewehere into Bohemia.
The fact that the official language is german doesn't mean there aren't slavic people around.

Then, the ruling house would happen to inherit the throne of a southern german country or Austria (Maybe after the death of Rudolf?), thus making it possible to beat Prussia and prevent the formation of the german empire in 1871. How about that?

Molvania is not that important - I place it somewhere between Poland, Romania, Hungaria and Slovakia and multiethnical.

[gloriousbattle]

Thanks for pointing me to this thread Redorc!

Here are my contributions for a 15mm game:

Axis and Allies Miniatures Cavalry

Mongolian 

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/702100 

Makes good Tartars and Magyars.  You need to spruce up the paint job, but I added trimmed robes and colorful ruffs and hoods to mine, and they look quite nice.

Greek

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/702096

The helmet is very late 19th, early 20th century style Ottoman, so they can be used nicely for troops of a similar Turkish nation, if any such borders Ruritania.

Polish

http://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/Misc%20Art/Axis%20and%20Allies%20Miniatures/aa2-006.jpg

This guy is fairly nicely painted as is.  All I did was to add a wash.  He is a great Eastern European cavalryman, though the horse is small, closer in size to a steppe pony.  Maybe auxiliary cav of some kind?

Cossack

http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/images/aamcs_gallery/Cossack_Cavalrymen.jpg

Nice fig, but expensive and tough to find.

[gloriousbattle]

hmm....

pre 1870 Ruritania appears to be very small.
I wouldn't bother too much with the historical accuracy, we can simply stuff it somewehere into Bohemia.
The fact that the official

I remember somebody having a nation called "The Forgotten Pashalik of Grok" or something similar.  It was forgotten by the great powers when dividing up the Balkans because it was a tiny nation that happened to lie right where the map edges came together.

[former user]

Yes, but the Balkans are way beyond where Ruritania is imagined

[former user]

so here we are, still in the business
with Red Orc's Ruritania
former user's Molvania
Gloriousbattle's Ottomania and Transylvania
closely supported by Argsilverson
and monitored by Captain Blood

in at (at the moment only conceptual) alternative Steampunk Europe starting in the 19C and ending in the 20C

everyone else is invited to contribute

I already bought miniatures for a Molvanian interwar cadet regiment, Zeppelin Drop troopers, 2 Blimps, 1 Submarine and some ships, and intend to supplement with interwar cavalry and 19C versions of the regiments.
The goods trains are already there, the passenger train of the Royal Molvanian railway and the personal train of HRH King Rudolph will follow closely.
Oh, forgot the armoured trains...

The addition of a vampire-led Transsylvania sounds very promising

[gloriousbattle]

You can't invade Ruritania without these:


Dwarven Steam Behemoth (becomes a BIG land leviathan in 15mm, and not a small one in 28mm)


D&D Minis Hammerer


Indiana Jones Tank; imaginary, great for VSF 15mm, much closer to 15mm scale.  Maybe you could use these to play VSF OGRE in Ruritania?


Golden Compass airship


Scoresby's ballon from the same film.

http://www.15mm.co.uk/HOF30_Automata_Infantry.htm
Buckets of soulless 15mm scale clockwork men.

[elefant66]

Hello,

  does anyone have copies  / dvd of Miniature Wargames 304-305 Aug-Sept 2008 ?

 which has a Ruritania article   


  " Beyond  Zenda "

  JG

[Red Orc]

Hi Elephant66, did anything ever come of your search for this article?