"somalian" piracy, the return of armed vessels?

[argsilverson]

I got an article, via some spam e-mail, which is interesting to read:
http://marinelink.com/News/Article/334005.aspx

a proposition to arm commercial vessels in order to deal the pirates
BT I used the common term as "somali-an" since the somali pirates are the most well known, however it seems that the horn of africa  is not the only place to have risks of piracy.

Could make a nice suggestion for some scenarios with armed commercial vessels (or armed sailors) and pirates in the most adventurous waters!

[rob_the_robgoblin]

Bit too close to reality for my liking. Nice idea though.

Similar to a friend of mine, who said in an alternate cold war, what if Russia and America had gotten into space travel a little more and space battle was the norm in the early 21st century. I.e. Our 'normal' shuttles, but armed with torpedoes and stuff...

[Puuka]

A modern day naval battle without it being a government naval fleet (No large battle Cruisers)

Could have any sort of commercial vessel, armed with a selection of small to medium weapons

Could even have things like this for speed units

[Luthaaren Von Tegale]

Sound like it could be fun.
But if it's too close to the real world, and I can understand that, how about a "waterworld" type game set in the future? Could be fun with all vessels at least lightly armed - I played around with the idea years ago using Irregular miniatures 6mm boats - the jet skis came from the sci-fi range as jet bikes.
From memory I used a modified version of GWs "Man o War" game for the rules but any set of "coastal" forces rules would work.

vT

[Bako]

...but armed with torpedoes and stuff...

Now, now. We all know that space isn't an ocean, err wait. Wasn't that a space whale I just saw past the porthole?

Space battles would be way different though, in all seriousness: it's actually pretty damn interesting. In foresight, sorry for the derail.

This would be pretty interesting and would have plenty of kitbash opportunities. Plus, for those not interested in buying whole ranges or historical pirates and seamen (stop snickering, you... yeah, you) and nice galleons to boot, they could simply turn to their modern baddies and law enforcers. In addition, I imagine scratch-building a modern ship would be more easily managed.

Woah, someone's a motor-head.

[Doc Twilight]

There was a very interesting proposal here in the states a few years ago that was mentioned again after the first rounds of Somali incidents.

 Essentially, it was to purchase some of the older destroyers laying around in various scrapyards from WW2, spend a lot of money on reconditioning them, and then using them as privately owned privateers/pirate hunters/convoy escorts. As I recall, some of the shipping companies were actually interested in this, but it never actually went anywhere. I thought it was a rather intriguing concept.

Same thing happened around 9/11 when several folks requested letters of marque from Congress to go hunting enemy sponsored watercraft. That, at least, is perfectly legal under the American system, but only when war is formally declared. (And we've even declared war on individuals, so don't put it past us. That said, let's try to keep the "Gee, you yanks are stupid" comments to a minimum, eh?)

(On a slightly related, but legalistic note, the US has ignored it's role in the Anti-Slaving laws that still govern international commerce. Were we not doing so, we'd have quite a few more littoral warfare ships in those waters right about now. Ahh well.)


-Doc

[Luthaaren Von Tegale]

Essentially, it was to purchase some of the older destroyers laying around in various scrapyards from WW2, spend a lot of money on reconditioning them, and then using them as privately owned privateers/pirate hunters/convoy escorts. As I recall, some of the shipping companies were actually interested in this, but it never actually went anywhere. I thought it was a rather intriguing concept.

Sounds interesting but more cost effective might be to resurrect the old Q-ship idea - hidden weapons on a seemingly harmless freighter with a dummy "valuable cargo" - let the bad guys come in close, "force2 them into firing a warning shot then drop the disguise and blow them out of the water in justified retaliation.
I'm suprised that idea wasn't suggested.

Not sure that would make an interesting game though, at least not for the pirates!

vT

[former user]

seriously, whoever opens up this box of pandora will set international sea-transport in serious trouble.
there are enough navies that can be sent with the help of a proper UN-mission - that's what should be done.
Already enough private security companies around that disable that state's monopoly to use force.



As to the wargaming aspect - why not, marvellous Idea and fictional enough for me, though I prefer earlier vessels

I concur

[Doc Twilight]

Comments withdrawn. I'm not going to be drawn into this "Americans are all cowboys", "Europeans are all enlightened" or vice versa stuff. Got enough problems with the people here who want to give policemen the power to randomly ask strangers to produce their paperwork or be deported. Somehow thought we'd left that all in the old world.

Oh well. I still think a couple Fletchers would make for a hell of a pirate hunting expedition;) Then again, I also think gaming the Cod Wars would be interesting.

-Doc

[argsilverson]

OK Doc,
you are right and I am not the person to stick on terms, as you mention cowboys vs enlightment!

But
I like you idea about wargaming the cod war!
It is interesting stuff, The only reverse it is costly to make even a small fleet of fish trawlers in 28mm!

[former user]

could You explain the Cod war please?

was it this thing between Britain and Iceland?

[joroas]

Yes, it was over fishing boundaries and got quite nasty in it's own way.  The Royal Navy was out on patrol and I remember that there was some ramming of ships..

[joroas]

Found this quick read:

The three Icelandic Cod Wars that took place in 1958, 1973 and 1975 were precipitated by concerns on the part of Iceland that the stocks of Cod fish were being seriously depleted by over fishing.

With few natural Icelandic resources such as timber, agriculture, fuel or mineral deposits, Iceland relies heavily upon it’s stocks of Cod fish and the Cod Wars have been a vital element in protecting this industry.

In 1958 the first Icelandic Cod War took place after they extended their fishing limits from 4 miles to 12 miles off Iceland’s coast.

In 1972 Iceland further extended their limits to a 50 mile radius which prompted a hostile response from other nations, not least Britain, and the second Icelandic Cod War took place.

An agreement was reached in 1973, resolving the second Icelandic Cod War when Britain agreed to limit fishing for Cod to designated areas within the 50 mile radius.

What further instigated the third Icelandic Cod War, apart from the expiration of the agreement made at the end of the second Cod War, was Iceland’s move to extend the 50 mile radius to 200 miles.

Iceland argued that the United Nations stance on the law of the sea, with International support mooted in meetings during 1974, agreed there should be a 200 mile coastal economic zone with a 12 mile limit on territorial waters.

The third Icelandic Cod War was precipitated because Britain refused to accept this decision and continued to fish within the 200 mile zone.

The battle raged for seven months and during this Icelandic Cod War Britain’s fishing trawlers were escorted by twenty two frigates (although at the most, only nine were to be deployed and any one time)

Of the three Icelandic Cod Wars, the third was the most threatening and during it’s course the Icelandic Coast Guards and the British fishing vessels rammed one another causing injuries and damage to boats.

The Icelandic Coast Guards used trawl cutters to cut the British Cod Fishing vessels nets.

After a particularly violent incident during the third Icelandic Cod War, the United Nations Security Council was approached but took no action. The Nordic Council announced their support for Iceland.

It was only when Iceland threatened, during the third Icelandic Cod War, that they would close the NATO base at Keflavik which would at that time have had major implications for world peace, that matters took a turn.

The American’s offered to mediate, but it was Dr. Joseph Luns, the Secretary General of NATO who interceded and helped to bring the third Icelandic Cod War to a conclusion on June 2nd 1976. It was agreed that only 24 British vessels would be allowed in the 200 mile zone and four conservation areas would be completely closed to the British. It was further agreed that the Icelandic Coast Guard following the Cod War would have the right to stop and search any vessel thought to be infringing the agreement.

[argsilverson]

BTW there was no armed vessels!
even small arms were not used (I do not know if they were carried, too. and I mean the fishing vessels and coast guards that participated!

[former user]

I recall a movie (or was it more than one) where there was a brawl fought out with fish?