Salute 2010 - thoughts?

[answer_is_42]

A bit of a late thread I suppose, but I was kinda waiting for someone to start something similar*. Anyway;
What did those who went think of this year’s Salute?

Personally, I had a thoroughly good time, although I didn't find it quite as enjoyable as last year. The re-enactors weren't as good, in my opinion. Irritatingly, I left my shopping list at home, wrapped around my camera, so I took not photos, and bought all the wrong things, but considering what could have gone wrong**, this was fairly unimportant. What I did buy was a vast amount of dice (for more money than I'd willingly admit), and a few random 28mm figures, pirates and suchlike (obviously, never to be painted).

Of course, my experience was greatly enhanced by meeting the illustrious Malamute and Overlord - they truly are real people, and not (as I at first suspected) particularly witty spambots...

*If they have, and I missed it, then I do apologise.
**I mean, I went via the train/tube, by myself, and wasn’t mugged or anything. Awful lot of dodgy looking fellows there, though.

[Rob_bresnen]

I spent loads of money, and considerably increased my lead mountain. It was my first visit to salute, but I really enjoyed it. The reenactors were a bit odd (no offence) but the battlefields were great.  I didn't do any gaming, but I love to see a nice battlefield, and perhaps went home with one or two good idead, as well as a bag full of lead. I really like the battle fields that used lighting- very cool.

I met Inso, a hero of mine, and enjoyed chatting to the folks at Musketeer about VBCW. Best purchace of the day was some lasercut wooden buildings for cowboy wild west setting from Warbases.co.uk- very cool, and inexpencive.

I think it's great being able to see models in real life, as opposed to the internet- it gives you a better sence of scale and sculpting. I was suprised by how good some of the stuff from Dixon and Black Cat Bases was.

Over all, a great day out. I wish I had had more time to chat to store owners and manifactures, but they were all so busy.

[OSHIROmodels]

Didn't get much of a chance to wander around but there were a few table empty (due, I expect, to the volcano) and it seems a mixed bag where other people are concerned, most enjoyed it but others were not to sure.

I personally think Salute is a good idea (scale wise) as it's a good melting pot for all that's good in our hobby.

cheers

James

[Westfalia Chris]

Overall, I'm happy I went.

The trader selection was exceptional (spent more money than planned, but I had saved up for it, so it's okay. Somewhere where I can cheat myself into thinking getting ever more trinkets is okay when I should be buying gold, preserved foods and weapons for the forthcoming socio-economic collapse and civil war in Germany).

There were some very nice tables, some very solid ones, and some that were ambitioned but somehow lacked the coherent "sum of all parts". I didn't play, though, but I rarely ever do at conventions unless I host a game.

Met a number of folks from the forum and had some nice chats.

Wasn't too keen on the venue. Very accessible (going there worked like a charm, although I set out at 4h50am to be there in time), and using the DLR is always lovely (must be in my genes). Both spacey and airey, what with the numbers of visitors.

That said, for me, it lacked that certain "charming air" that I found so appealing at shows like Fiasco, Recon and Vapnartak. I particularly liked Knavesmire Stand (and yes, I do climb stairs even though I'm Wargamer Standard Size^TM). ExCel is a bit too "corporate" or, well, "convention centre-y" to really appeal to me. But that's some irrational personal preference.

I think a lot of the appeal comes from where you live - it's probably a must-have if you live in the South. If things work out like I plan and I can stay in the UK for another year, I'll probably skip Salute next year and go to Triples instead, to have a comparison.

[answer_is_42]

That said, for me, it lacked that certain "charming air" that I found so appealing at shows like Fiasco, Recon and Vapnartak. I particularly liked Knavesmire Stand (and yes, I do climb stairs even though I'm Wargamer Standard Size^TM). ExCel is a bit too "corporate" or, well, "convention centre-y" to really appeal to me. But that's some irrational personal preference.

I know what you mean. It's all very big, and distant, the building itself is rather unfriendly.

Oh, and I forgot to ask; Malamute, did you win?

[Smokeyrone]

Westfalia, you went to RECON, ?  When?  We must have met?

[alone_withmyaxe]

This was my first salute, and I have to say I did enjoy it, except the drive in and out of London!

I think there was a lack of atmosphere but that is difficult to generate in a big space like that. I have become a regular at the tiny local show in Abingdon in Oxfordshire called Overlord, so this was my first big show experience, but Overlord which is held in a school feels much more friendly and close.

I didn't really have a plan and I think that was an issue, I would of probably now in hindsight liked to of looked closer at the scenery as some was awesome, and I think I missed all cthulhu/pulp skirmish games which I would have been interested in.

I spent a little and got some great stuff, met a few people from the forum who's names now all escape me. It was in general a good show and I will probably go for it next year as well. I will make a better plan next time.

[Westfalia Chris]

Westfalia, you went to RECON, ?  When?  We must have met?

Recon in Pudsey, West Yorkshire, UK. Not the one in the US. Sorry to disappoint.

[Malamute]

Oh, and I forgot to ask; Malamute, did you win?

OF COURSE (not!)

Once I again I snatched defeat from the jaws of victory 

It was good to meet you too.

I didn't see much of the show, let alone do much shopping. I missed all the interesting looking games too.

[Doc Twilight]

May I ask a question, chaps? And forgive the ignorance thereof.

I don't "get" Salute. When I lived in London, I was invited, and (foolishly) turned down the opportunity, instead choosing to wait on a certain individual to arrive on a certain plane from a certain country (that's another story in and of itself - thanks, Amy!). Anyway, I have been interested in going, but as my maturity and experience in the hobby has grown, I've noticed a few odd things about Salute. This is the impression I get (and I mean absolutely NO offense, just don't go calling me a bleedin' idiotic yank if I don't catch on right away):

1. The event is extremely short. Something like 10am to 5pm, right? What's the point in making such an effort for such a comparatively short period of time to play, let alone play and shop? Wouldn't it be better if the event were at least two days? If that isn't possible, why isn't the event longer? Just about every con I've been to in the US has run till at least eight, even the really lousy ones.

2. Many of the games are Demos, not participation games. Why is this? Don't people go to a convention wanting to game, or is it, as some British friends tell me, "mostly a shopping a con"?

3. If it's a Shopping Con, why's it such a big draw? The UK is not a tiny country, but then again, it ain't huge. Are so m any vendors in obscure places that it's just about impossible to get anything from them except at Salute?

4. Also, on that note, why so few multi-day, o r at least longer day, cons in the UK? I know there are some, but most seem to be "themed" (ie: Nationals, rather than, multiple kinds of miniature gaming, ala something like the dreaded Historicon).

Again, no disrespect intended. I would very much like to get to Salute at some point just to check it out, but as I said, aside from looking at things and oohing and ahhing?

Or is it perhaps that my innate Hungarian-ness has made me less than keen on standing in lines, even if it isn't for things like toilet paper and state sponsored bread?

-Alex

[Hammers]

May I ask a question, chaps? And forgive the ignorance thereof.

I don't "get" Salute. When I lived in London, I was invited, and (foolishly) turned down the opportunity, instead choosing to wait on a certain individual to arrive on a certain plane from a certain country (that's another story in and of itself - thanks, Amy!). Anyway, I have been interested in going, but as my maturity and experience in the hobby has grown, I've noticed a few odd things about Salute. This is the impression I get (and I mean absolutely NO offense, just don't go calling me a bleedin' idiotic yank if I don't catch on right away):

1. The event is extremely short. Something like 10am to 5pm, right? What's the point in making such an effort for such a comparatively short period of time to play, let alone play and shop? Wouldn't it be better if the event were at least two days? If that isn't possible, why isn't the event longer? Just about every con I've been to in the US has run till at least eight, even the really lousy ones.

2. Many of the games are Demos, not participation games. Why is this? Don't people go to a convention wanting to game, or is it, as some British friends tell me, "mostly a shopping a con"?

3. If it's a Shopping Con, why's it such a big draw? The UK is not a tiny country, but then again, it ain't huge. Are so m any vendors in obscure places that it's just about impossible to get anything from them except at Salute?

4. Also, on that note, why so few multi-day, o r at least longer day, cons in the UK? I know there are some, but most seem to be "themed" (ie: Nationals, rather than, multiple kinds of miniature gaming, ala something like the dreaded Historicon).

Again, no disrespect intended. I would very much like to get to Salute at some point just to check it out, but as I said, aside from looking at things and oohing and ahhing?

Or is it perhaps that my innate Hungarian-ness has made me less than keen on standing in lines, even if it isn't for things like toilet paper and state sponsored bread?

-Alex

I have never been to Salute either but I have asked myself pretty much the same thing about it.

[Westfalia Chris]

I'd like to take that up as a somehow "semi-external observer" (i.e. being a gamer, but not a Brit, so my perspective and take on wargaming shows might be a bit different).

1. The event is extremely short. Something like 10am to 5pm, right? What's the point in making such an effort for such a comparatively short period of time to play, let alone play and shop? Wouldn't it be better if the event were at least two days? If that isn't possible, why isn't the event longer? Just about every con I've been to in the US has run till at least eight, even the really lousy ones.

The one-day show seems to be rather prevalent here, and the 6-7 hour time slot as well. I don't really mind that, because I can go in the morning and return home in the evening, whcih eliminates booking a hotel room. The only two-day show I heard off was Triples (Saturday and Sunday). Furthermore, from what I know about London, the rent for the venue must be expensive, but given ticket prices and the purported trade space rent, that should pay for it.

2. Many of the games are Demos, not participation games. Why is this? Don't people go to a convention wanting to game, or is it, as some British friends tell me, "mostly a shopping a con"?

3. If it's a Shopping Con, why's it such a big draw? The UK is not a tiny country, but then again, it ain't huge. Are so m any vendors in obscure places that it's just about impossible to get anything from them except at Salute?

The numbers certainly were skewed towards traders (I heard 130+ to 30-40). So I think the "shopping" aspect is a big one. I initially thought you would get more local (read Southern) traders, but most of the stalls I saw had also been at one or the other of the Northern shows. I guess it's got to do with Salute having developed into the "Flagship Convention" (no offence to others, as said, I actually preferred Fiasco and Vapnartak) for the UK (if just for popularity or awareness), and you just get the large choice of traders. I guess almost 40 years as part of the circuit have that kind of impact.

4. Also, on that note, why so few multi-day, o r at least longer day, cons in the UK? I know there are some, but most seem to be "themed" (ie: Nationals, rather than, multiple kinds of miniature gaming, ala something like the dreaded Historicon).

Cannot say why that is the case, but since I primarily go to shop and to look at games (not necessarily play, I don't really like that unless I run a game at a convention), I prefer the one-day - gives me the rest of the weekend to relax from the travelling stress, savour the afterglow and start assembling the goodies bought.

Again, no disrespect intended. I would very much like to get to Salute at some point just to check it out, but as I said, aside from looking at things and oohing and ahhing?

If coming from abroad, I wouldn't really recommend to go to London "just for Salute", but as part of a one-week London holiday or so, it would be nice.

Or is it perhaps that my innate Hungarian-ness has made me less than keen on standing in lines, even if it isn't for things like toilet paper and state sponsored bread?

First thing I learned here is how to queue properly (even if all those young folks don't have the decency to do it anymore unless herded by barriers). Then again, as a German, I guess it appeals to the sense of public order one subconciously craves.

I think you may just be overemphasizing your particular set of requirements. I'd rather say that attendant expectations follow a normal-distribution curve, i.e. there are a low to moderate number who want to game as much as possible, a low to moderate number who want to primarily shop and look, and the majority in the middle wo don't really have either preference. Exhibitors might go for their preferred effort, and there, a demo game would be less stressful than a full participation game. It all evens out statistically in the end, I guess.

[Dewbakuk]

I go to Salute mostly to look at stuff. I like getting in a demo game or two from x company who's rules look interesting but I rarely play in participation games. I usually spend too much money so the shopping aspect is certainly high. For me though it's a chance to see all those figures "in the flesh". I've changed my mind about figures after going to Salute, sometimes positively, sometimes not. The internet is great and allows me to get many figures via mail order but it doesn't give me a true sense of the figures sculpting or scale, it's much better to actually see them.

There are quite a lot of traders at Salute that don't do any other show. Several come over from the continent and a few fly in from the States etc. Therefore it's the only chance I'll get to see some things. As for the one day vs two day thing, that's just how we do it here. Even at shows like Triples, which is a two day event, most of the people through the door only go for one of the two days.

Of course, this year I decided it wasn't worth the cost. Massively dissapointed but I just couldn't justify it.

[Bungle]

I think Chris summed it up.

Most UK shows can be visited in a day and you can get home to your own bed, from almost anywhere in the country (if you want to fly or drive long hours)

So the two day show with people staying over has not taken hold, apart from Derby and Triples.

The extra cost of two days shows in cash and time is off putting for traders (there is a show nearly every weekend somewhere in the UK, if they were all 2 day shows a lot of people would never have a free weekend and have to take a lot of time off their full time jobs (most traders have a second string to their bow))

Because of the short one day shows, people have less time to play in games (which are free to join in the UK) and spend their time shopping and seeing new releases, comparing figures in the flesh to see compatibility etc.

Most shows are therefore "shopping trips" to see pretty things .... like games, chat about rules being demo'd. As people don't have time to join in.

The two day shows are actually great.... day one shopping and chatting and seeing whats new... day two joining in games, and buying those things you forgot the previous day and more impulse buys...

But I am lucky.... I can get to both two day shows easily

[OSHIROmodels]

On a slight OT, Warfare is another good two day show.

cheers

James