Italian tank colour

[David]

Hi
Does anybody know what colour Italian tank were 1940/41 greek campain?
Thanks
David

[Doc Twilight]

Italian tanks (and most vehicles) in the Greek campaign were painted in European theatre livery. Overall grey green; the official shade of which looks a lot like Vallejo "Bronze Green", but there are a few variations. Divisional insignia, where present (not commonly used), would have been on the side hull plates and the front hull plate, in black stencil form. The divisions involved in the Greek Campaign were Littorio and Centauro, if memory serves, so you would have had Fasces or a hand clasping a sword (different versions cited by different sources - I tend to believe it would have been the Fasces) for Littorio, and a rearing Centaur, drawing back a bow, for Centauro. If Ariete was involved (and I don't believe it was), divisional symbol was a Ram's head.

Tanks that weren't part of the armored divisions would not have had divisional symbols, and unit symbols were fairly rare (divisional symbols were rare enough - the symbols for regiments and detachments were almost unheard of.)

The Italians didn't use camouflage in Greece, and hadn't adapted a camo scheme for Europe until after the Greek campaign.

-Doc

[David]

Thanks
Thats what i needed to know, I have Vallejo grey green for the italians
so i can now get on with painting them
i have a book on it, but i have moved and can't find it yet
I am not sure how the greeks destroyed the Italian tanks, since the had very little AT guns?
thank for your help
David

[Tomsche]

The avarage italian mainstay of that time (L3 and L6) could be penetrated by so lowly a gun like a Boys AT rifle, combined with difficult terrain, unreliabililty of the mechanics and AT equipment of the BEF present

[carlos marighela]

The Italians didn't use camouflage in Greece, and hadn't adapted a camo scheme for Europe until after the Greek campaign.
-Doc

You may well be right re Greece but I thought that they were using the grey green with brick red splotches scheme in 1940 against the French. Fairly sure that this scheme was also utilised in N.Africa at the outset of the war.

[Tomsche]

That scheme was even used so far as the Sicily campaign (like on the huge Semovento 90`s of the 6th division) and survived into the RSI afterwards for the rest of the war.

Italians schemes were usually `planned in theory` but not always `conform with reality`, quit a lot of the L6/40s that went to Russia still hoisted their desert paint scheme, the theatre they where intended for to be deployed in, and where patched up with dried mud and the likes to camouflage them.

[njetkulturny]

The tanks used in the Greece campaign were the L3 and the M13/40.

Standard colour was a grey green, but the extend of camouflage painting is in dispute. Different source books give different accounts and in the beginning of the war the paint schemes were homemade with what was at hand.

Ariete and Littorio (in build) were definitely not on the ticket, but Centauro was in action.

[David]

Hi
The two tanks i have seen pictures for the greek campain are

This is a black and white which has been coloured and i don't think it is correctly done

the colour from my tanks as below



so i will use these as a guide line for painting
David

[Doc Twilight]

The tanks used in the Greece campaign were the L3 and the M13/40.

Standard colour was a grey green, but the extend of camouflage painting is in dispute. Different source books give different accounts and in the beginning of the war the paint schemes were homemade with what was at hand.

Ariete and Littorio (in build) were definitely not on the ticket, but Centauro was in action.

Actually, Littorio had been used in France in 1940, but you're right, it wasn't there in Greece. Was used in Yugoslavia, however.

How did the Greeks destroy them?

Infantry assault, direct fire weapons, lucky shots, etc. The L3 was a fairly easy nut to crack. The M13/40, not so much. There were also M11/39s in Greece. The Greeks captured a few L3s and 11/39s. The M13/40 was far and beyond anything the Greeks had at the time, however, and I'm not aware of any being captured.


-Doc

[Arlequín]

I've no sources to hand, but I'm sure the entire run of the M11/39 went to North and East Africa in a bit of a hurry as the Italians tripped, stumbled and fell into WW2? The M13/40 was certainly used in Greece as they became available though.

[David]

This is a good site fir information
 http://ww2greece.wargaming.info/index.htm
As far as i can tell, they collect some 20mm and 45mm AT guns of the italians
and were sent some Italian / british equipment from the british
Artillery and mortar would be the main way they would have knocked out tanks.

[Arlequín]

I'm grasping at straws in the dark here, but I'd imagine precarious mountain roads would have been blocked or blown too.

[carlos marighela]

I'm guessing Retsina played a key part. Pine O Cleen not so cleverly disguised as wine. I once had the dubious pleasure of flying with Olympic and Retsina along with the equally appalling Metaxas brandy (yes it does taste like a fascist general's socks) certainly had a deleterious effect on me.

[Arlequín]

I quite like Retsina. Metaxa 2 star is great for stripping paint from figures, indeed even stripping the lead from figures. 
Ouzo of course is great value for money, as it all starts again when you have that much needed glass of water the following morning!

The Greeks managed to capture a few Italian CV33/L3 tanks iirc?

[argsilverson]

I'm guessing Retsina played a key part.

I am a afraid there was no retsina on the front! (due to bad logistics)
In fact brandy was more common (used af cold fighter!)

Ouzo of course is great value for money, as it all starts again when you have that much needed glass of water the following morning!

The Greeks managed to capture a few Italian CV33/L3 tanks iirc?

Ouzo: very good choice!
Yes We managed to capture some (abt 20? intact) , enough to form a mobilised brigade !!
How and which do not ask me. Too, many stories to believe! In fact Italians were kind enough to supply much needed supplies. As for british aid, do not ask!