WHFB 8

[sukhe_bator]

I'd hold onto your minis and get Armies of Arcana instead. It is a great ruleset which fosters good tactical play and already has all the features WHFB 8 was supposed to 'fix' from previous WHFB editions. It'll only set you back about £20 for the rulebook and thats all you'll need. No fancy themed army lists full of fluff PLUS you can use ALL your fantasy and historical minis past and present at the same time.

[rob_the_robgoblin]

Because it doesn't have all the fluff and themed army lists...

Also, because more people play WHFB.

There's nothing to say I couldn't play both...

[Viper]

Finding a different, better, large scale fantasy rules set but using it to play games set in the Warhammer world strikes me as the best idea.
 

The background really is the only thing that interests me at all from the evil empire these days (except for titan and battlefleet gothic models), and even some of that, particularly in 40k, is being retconed and messed with these days.
 

[P_Clapham]

Agreed.  I'd add that using a smaller scale would be a good idea too.

Finding a different, better, large scale fantasy rules set but using it to play games set in the Warhammer world strikes me as the best idea.
 

[dijit]

Agreed.  I'd add that using a smaller scale would be a good idea too.

Well if you like the Warhammer universe, then I can whole heartedly recommend Warmaster.

[joroas]

I have Warmaster, too.  Along with an Undead, High Elf and republican Roman armies (for WMA)

[Dewbakuk]

I know a few people that have played Warhammer using Warmaster figures. It let them play games on their desks during lunch hour etc. They kept the ranks seperate in a small movement tray and used counters to track wounds for a rank until it got removed. Actually worked quite well.

[joroas]

WELCOME TO THE WAYLAND GAMES NEWSLETTER
Hi Everyone and welcome to this week's Wayland Newsletter.
WARHAMMER FANTASY - 8TH EDITION
We are proud to announce that 8th edition pre-orders are now available from our website in five languages: English, German, Spanish, Italian and French. At a whopping 528 pages long this full colour rulebook isn't just a rulebook but a comprehensive gamers tool including scenarios, campaign ideas, a background to the Warhammer world and it's races – everything you could ever want or need to know about the world of fantasy. In addition to the rulebook, we also have the counter set and the template set available to pre-order, along with the brand new battle magic set. All these items will be dispatched the day we get hold of them so be sure to get those pre-orders in now to avoid disappointment.

Don't forget we currently have an eight percent discount on the ANY Mantic product when you pre-order the new Warhammer Fantasy Rulebook (in any language). Just enter code MANTIC48 at the check out to save even more off those big army bundles, and it gets even better because next week is going to be a Mantic special....

[Viper]

The rules for warmaster never really grabbed me sadly, though truthfully I probably didn't give it as much of a go as I should have as back then I had numerous games on the go already and liked larger models.

Of all the things I've been hearing about 8th edition (the recent most likely accurate stuff) the main killer for me has been the simplifying and speeding up of movement and terrain. While I do know some players really disliked the old movement system, it tended to be the longest phase, it is really what made the game tactical.

All this talk of premeasuring, random charge ranges...etc. While more easily accessable takes a way a big chunk of the tactical side of the game.

The new magic systems, combat rules and such being a bit more sensible and streamlined is okay, but it just all feels like it's moving towards 40k Fantasy edition. I'm sure it will be fun, but just not quite enough tactical depth for me.

So sadly (or perhaps gladly) I don't think the release of 8th will see me going back to the Evil Empire.

[Dewbakuk]

Of all the things I've been hearing about 8th edition (the recent most likely accurate stuff) the main killer for me has been the simplifying and speeding up of movement and terrain. While I do know some players really disliked the old movement system, it tended to be the longest phase, it is really what made the game tactical.

All this talk of premeasuring, random charge ranges...etc. While more easily accessable takes a way a big chunk of the tactical side of the game.

I couldn't disagree more. Having read the parts of the book I wanted to get a good look at I feel there are quite a few variables that will really annoy tournament players, but given that I dislike the tournament atmosphere immensely, that doesn't bother me 

With specific regards to the premeasuring and charge ranges etc I'd say it adds tactical flexibility. Premeasuring is irrelevant with variable charges and no guess range weaponry anyway. Also given that anyone who plays regularly is usually able to 'guess' the ranges pretty damned accurately it only ever really hurt the newer players (anyone who can't get that right generally doesn't use those weapons). With the charge distances, if we take a 'standard' movement of 4", then they'll charge 4 + 2d6", giving them a minimum charge range of 6". The previous charge range of 8" is also very likely, so you're not losing out there. Over that distance however the odds start to become a little riskier, yes the average distance is 11" but anyone who plays dice games knows that in reality that doesn't mean a damn. So, you can charge the distance you've been able to charge before pretty reliably but you now gain the option of potentially charging further, perhaps a lot further, however if you do so you run the risk of over extending and failing the charge with potentially disastrous results. That level of risk management adds to the tactical game in my opinion.

My gripe with the game is that archers etc still need to be strung out in lines to be of any use. It's irritating for two reasons, it's not how archers were used in battle and strings of models just get in the way on the tabletop. They should have just taken the WAB archer rule and inserted it, it works much better and isn't really any more effective.

[Alfrik]

Archers in a single line mean they block LOS for units behind them, block charges by units behind them also. They really do not want to go back to the days of the wood elf archery armies me thinks.

[P_Clapham]

Not quite my cup of Tea.  I'm more into the middle earth setting.

Well if you like the Warhammer universe, then I can whole heartedly recommend Warmaster.

[Viper]

You do make a lot of good points Dewbakuk, I guess it's just down to my personal experience that's making me think this way.

While the random charge thing does add the option to "take a risk" and go for a long charge my issue (bred mostly from being a very long time Orc and Gobbo player) is that anything based on a dice roll needs to be backed up with a plan B. So to me it effectivly reduces charge ranges as I'd want to be within 6" and make sure I get the charge than be 7" away and get a snake eyes. Certainly bred from the Greenskin problem of Animosity, the dice will always go against you when you need it more often than they should.
 

Going with 40k esq "true line of sight" is a nonsense aswell (just as it was when brought into 40k). Terrain made for miniature games HAS to be built to allow the players to actually place their models inside it, hence gaps are needed. Now if you want to make a terrain piece that represents a dense patch of trees for example you need to build a solid wall of sight blocking trees, with a hole in the center to place models.

This isn't the final nail in the coffin yet, maybe, just maybe, the new Orc and Goblin and Wood Elf books will be fun enough to tempt me back into the game. After the disappointment of the new Beastman book though I'm not holding my breath.
 

[bc99]

Going with 40k esq "true line of sight" is a nonsense aswell (just as it was when brought into 40k). Terrain made for miniature games HAS to be built to allow the players to actually place their models inside it, hence gaps are needed. Now if you want to make a terrain piece that represents a dense patch of trees for example you need to build a solid wall of sight blocking trees, with a hole in the center to place models.

True line of sight is great, for skirmish games. 40K is no longer a skirmish game, it's "blob vs. blob". That's unfortunate, and part of the reason I no longer enjoy playing the actual miniatures game (although I love the background!).

[Argonor]

Not quite my cup of Tea.  I'm more into the middle earth setting.

Battle of 5 Armies IS Warmaster in ME. More or less.