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Author Topic: Air brushes  (Read 4751 times)

Offline gamer Mac

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Air brushes
« on: August 06, 2010, 09:49:32 AM »
As you may have noticed I have a rather large building project going on else where on the forum. One of the things that will have to be done in the near future is paint the thing.
I have always had a notion from an air brush but I was put off in my youth (God, about 30 odd years ago) when I bought one with my hard earned paper round money for painting airfix tanks. I could never get it to work properly using Humbrol enamels and thinners. I managed to waste a couple of tanks before the can of compressed air ran out. Due to my limited funds at the time I decided to chuck it as the cans were too expensive and so were the models.
After seeing some of the sterling work by various people on this forum using air brushes for both models (Admiral B) and terrain (Captain blood) I have been thinking about purchasing one. Also I have a Birthday coming up that I can use to justify the cost to my wife. :D
I am looking for some advice on various things about them.
Which one is the best?
What kind to buy? I see there are different type gravity feed etc.
Which one has the best value for money?
Which one is best for a novice?
How much do they cost?
Where to buy in the UK?
What bits and pieces do you need? Pipes, cleaning stuff etc
I am thinking about a compressor instead of the awkward cans which always run out just as you need them.
So the same questions apply to the compressor.
I am also after advice about how to use them. Any hints or tips for the novice.
What paints work best?
Do you need ventilation? I do most of my work in a draughty garage.
Thanks

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Air brushes
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2010, 10:22:50 AM »
Colin,

For my terrain I've taken to using a standard decorator's spraygun (costs about £15) with a compressor (costs about £100). This is fine for terrain and would probably do for your zeppelin, but would be no good for detailed work.

However, it is also incredibly handy for decorating!
Got some big walls to paint? Wave goodbye to brushes and rollers - the spraygun will give you a perfectly smooth and even finish in 20% of the time it would take to paint the wall.  :)

I had exactly the same experience as you with my Humbrol airbrush c. 1979. Never worked properly. I'm sure they're a lot better now, and like everything, I guess if you want one capable of real precision work, you'd need to go to the expensive end of what's available. I'm sure you can still get them for £20 - £30, but they're probably about as much use as the old Humbrol ones... My guess is you're looking at £70 - £100 for a really decent precision implement, and nearer £150 for the real tip top models. Hobbycraft sell several, but I've never looked that closely at them.

Online JollyBob

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  • I've only had a few ales...
Re: Air brushes
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2010, 10:56:49 AM »
I've never used an airbrush myself (mainly down to fear) but I have heard good reports of the GW one.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat470006a&prodId=prod1350028

I believe the original one was a bit crap and prone to clogging, but they apparently have addressed this problem and its pretty good for a compact wee thing. One drawback is of course that you need to keep buying the propellant canisters which may mean occasionally talking to their staff...

Offline Blackwolf

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Re: Air brushes
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2010, 11:05:15 AM »
Buy one! Do it now and buy a good one (Iwata,Badger et cetera).They are worth there weight in gold and these days with acrylics easy to use. What can I use my expensive airbrush for you ask? Well as above as well as vehicles,'planes and undercoating minis,throw away your spray cans forever,no more missed spots and a nice even coat......I can go on and on, on the joys of airbrushing,mine is permanently set up on my painting desk,compressor just below and thinners nearby (glass cleaner).
  The airbrush I use is an Paasche,  an American brand,double action and abit old fashioned however it is built to last .I love my airbrush :-* :-* :D
May the Wolf  Walk With You
http://greywolf1066.blogspot.com.au/

Painting Clubs Joined: APC,MPC, PPC,PAPC,LPC.

Offline matakishi

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Re: Air brushes
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2010, 11:49:11 AM »
I use this aztek, infrequently I must admit, but it is lovely.
http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/30823/aztek-de-luxe-matel-airbrush-set-az4809/?source=2#



Whatever you buy, a compressor with an air tank (not direct feed) is a must and much cheaper (and far less dangerous) than the dreadful air cans

Offline DFlynSqrl

  • Mastermind
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Re: Air brushes
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2010, 12:25:04 PM »
I use an Iwata Revolution CR.  Takes a little bit getting used to the dual action, but it's been a really great experience so far and I was a total novice.  I use an Iwata Smartjet compressor for my air.

The startup is a little expensive on an Airbrush, but once you've got everything you need it's pretty affordable.

I highly recommend watching these tutorials:
http://fichtenfoo.net/blog/airbrush-tutorial-flash/#

It will teach you how to prepare your paints and do the actual airbrushing, etc.

What paints work best?

That's a matter of preferrence.  I've gotten to be rather fond of the Tamiya acrylics, but it's a little expensive per bottom.

Do you need ventilation? I do most of my work in a draughty garage.
Actually, you'll be creating some toxic fumes... so you really should invest in a mask.  I bought one at HomeDepot.  I still paint in my hobby room, just expect it to smell for a bit. 

I took a picture of my shelf:


As you can see, you need some bottles for thinning your paint and cleaning in between color switches.  The main thing about airbrushing is there's a bit of prep and cleanup afterwords.  The cleaning afterwords is really important.  BUT, it balances out because you can do some really fast work while you're painting.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 12:42:36 PM by DFlynSqrl »

Offline redzed

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    • redzed
Re: Air brushes
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2010, 12:36:55 PM »
I use this aztek, infrequently I must admit, but it is lovely.
http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/30823/aztek-de-luxe-matel-airbrush-set-az4809/?source=2#



Whatever you buy, a compressor with an air tank (not direct feed) is a must and much cheaper (and far less dangerous) than the dreadful air cans
same as Matakishi- the Aztek is really simple to clean and really hard to bugger up :D

edit- There's THIS SITE which is choc full with info.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 01:29:47 PM by redzed »
Commission Painting undertaken, PM or email me.

Offline Malebolgia

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Re: Air brushes
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2010, 12:43:40 PM »
The PS900 from Air Pro gets really good feedback online. It's a knockoff Iwata airbrush for a good price. Example:

http://www.buyairbrushes.com/products/PS900.html

I'm thinking of getting one, but I can't find a European retailer who sells one. I'm most interested in the pressure dial, which lets you control the air pressure on the brush itself and not only on the compressor. According to several forums this is fantastic once you're used to it.
“What use was time to those who'd soon achieve Digital Immortality?”

Offline fastolfrus

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Re: Air brushes
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2010, 01:02:11 PM »
There's a good model shop on Edinburgh that stocks quite a few, and last time we were there they had helpful staff who actually make models (and some use airbrushes) so can give advice.

They had some on special offer last year too (not that that helps 12 months later)
Gary, Glynis, and Alasdair (there are three of us, but we are too mean to have more than one login)

Offline dijit

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Re: Air brushes
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2010, 03:31:33 PM »
Is there a maximum pressure output from a compressor for airbrushes?
Duncan

Offline Antenociti

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Re: Air brushes
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2010, 03:56:57 PM »
I am looking for some advice on various things about them.

Thanks


Its a vast topic with a lot of answers I'm afraid, the short answers are below, but if you want a lot more info and prices please feel free to give us a ring as we supply half a dozen brands of airbrush and i use them pretty much daily in my work. Its a lot eaiser to talk about airbrushes in person than it is to write it all down!

Which one is the best? - iwata

What kind to buy? I see there are different type gravity feed etc. - Depends on what you want to do with it (honestly this makes a huge difference)

Which one has the best value for money? -Depends on what you want to do with it (honestly this makes a huge difference)

Which one is best for a novice?  - Depends on what you want to do with it (honestly this makes a huge difference)

How much do they cost? -  From £15.00 - £1500.00p

Where to buy in the UK? - Us!  ;)

What bits and pieces do you need? Pipes, cleaning stuff etc - Brush, hose, compressor

I am thinking about a compressor instead of the awkward cans which always run out just as you need them. - compressor is MUCH better, but not essential.

So the same questions apply to the compressor. - as above.

I am also after advice about how to use them. Any hints or tips for the novice. - see below

What paints work best? vallejo model air, tamiya, Life COlour

Do you need ventilation? I do most of my work in a draughty garage. - not required, but prefered.

--------------------------

Its very hard to answer general questions as what you want to do with it vastly alters the advice given and recommended airbrush, and that changes the advice on using it!

The starting point is how fine detail do you want to get down to? The finer the detail the finer, and more expensive, the airbrush you will want.

The very finest airbrushes & tips are then not great for large-area coverage...so you might end up looking at 2 different ones (i have 3!)

Once you know what you want to do with them i.e. <=2mm lines + a bit of scenery work, then folks can start recommending a brush that fulfills that range of work.

In general though it is worth bearing in mind that the finer the airbrush the more difficult it is to master - and airbrushes come with an extreme learning curve that results in ~ 80-90% of them never being used after the first month use.

Cheap knock-off airbrushes are, generally, worthless. The more expensive airbrushes you are paying for the quality of machining - which means that once they are stripped for cleaning, and reassembled, they fit back together very well and carry on working well. Cheap, low-quality machined airbrushes just dont fit back together very well and the result is both poor quality airbrushing AND, perhaps more importantly, an even steeper learning curve due to things going wrong even when you are doing them right.

This doesnt mean you need an expensive airbrush though, just a reputable one from the legitimate manufacturer.

The compressor makes the job of learning airbrushing a lot easier - this is simply down to removing the problems of changing air-flow and air-pressure, that create a lot of problems for the learner.

The most important thing to learn, and sometimes the hardest, is how to properly clean your airbrush. You will come to learn that cleaning it is THE most important job as a massive amount ofproblems stem from inadequate cleaning. SO you will need good cleaning solutions but these are not expensive, you will find yourself cleangin, cleaning,cleaning though.

Dont view an airbrush as a time-saver: by the time you have setup, cleaned, brushed, cleaned and put away you could ahve done it cheaper and quicker by hand - but what you couldn't have done is get the same quality and type of finish. It's not until you master an airbrush that it becomes a time saver and even then it wont save "that much" time.


and it goes on and on...

TBHBH i end up advising around 50% of people who phone up wanting an airbrush NOT to get one: it just wouldnt save them any time, it will cost them a lot of money and it probably sint what they need for the jobs they want to give it anyway.

If you are going to spend 150-200 on a starter aribrush and compressor (which is about right)  you really want to be sure its going to give you what you  want and that you have the time and patience to learn how to use them efficiently: once mastered they are brilliant, but that process of mastering them involves a huge and steep initial learning curve, a lot of time and frustration and a wad of cash.

Are you absolutely SURE you want to do that?

If so, then I'll happily sell you one  ;) and please give me a ring, but i do suggest to anybody thinking about airbrushing that if they can find a local class where they can ahve a couple of hours of practice and lessons, then it will be the best couple of hours they will ever spend on airbrushing: it will show you how easy (or not) they are to use, will chop out a few dozens of hours of wasted time trying to learn how to spot faults on your own, and you will learn how to strip and clean an airbrush ALL of which pay off in the long term.

So if there's a course near you, saya round £40-£50 for ahlf a day or so, then I strongly recommend going to that before even thinking about buying your own airbrush: that 80-90% of people who never use their airbrush after the first month is a reasonable guesstimation of the dropout rate...so spending £50 to avoid wasting £200+ is a good investment.

PLUS - (and this is very handy/useful sometimes) a lot of airbrushing courses nowadays revolve around learning how to aribrush nails - so you can even take the girlriend along and show her all the fantastic nail-art stencils there are that she could be wearing herself if you get a good airbrush! ..or temporary body tatoos, or spray-tanning.... :o ;)
\"You don\'t need eyes to see, you need vision.\"

Offline Antenociti

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  • Posts: 221
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Re: Air brushes
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2010, 04:00:26 PM »
Is there a maximum pressure output from a compressor for airbrushes?
Duncan

10-40 psi is the normal range... i rarely use anything over 15psi for actual airbrushing though, the higher pressures are for cleaning, or if i am using the big airbrush for very large areas.

Many compressors are rated to around 80-100psi, but invriably dont do much good above 50psi..but as you dont need that then it isnt a big deal.

The key to a good airbrush compressor is that the pressure doesnt "Pulse" , which is where cheap compressors let you down badly...using non-airbrush compressors for airbrushing can be, erm.. "Interesting"< but its best avoided, so dont plug your £300 airbrush into the compressor off the local building site!

Offline gamer Mac

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 8213
Re: Air brushes
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2010, 04:38:21 PM »
Brilliant stuff. Thanks’ for all the useful info. Just the sort of stuff I was looking for.
In general I was looking for an airbrush for painting larger models and scenery. I am imagining it would be great for getting the effects I want on buildings etc. Not that arty so I don’t think I will be doing any detailed stuff. I also like the idea of using it for under coating stuff again both figures and scenery. I am not that bothered about the saving of time. I think the effects I have seen on airbrushed models will be worth the time.
I will have a look at your site. Once I know a bit more about what I want I may give you a phone.
Thanks again.
I knew this was the right place to ask.

PS About the classes I don’t think it would be a good idea to take a girlfriend, my wife may object slightly. lol

Offline Mr. Peabody

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Re: Air brushes
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2010, 05:37:09 PM »
To sum up a bit:
  • Airbrushing is a bit of a hobby in and of itself. When you have the basics covered it is satisfying, fun and you can get a lot done.
  • Discount tools will frustrate the beginner; shop carefully.
  • Attention to the potential hazards from thinners and airborne particulates is important.
  • A reliable source of clean, dry compressed air or gas is critical. This means a compressor or a 20lb bottle of Co2 (which can last a year or more) fitted with a good quality regulator.
  • There is abundant good advice out on the web to help you choose your gravity-fed, dual-action airbrush. One brand not mentioned here so far that is very much worth considering is Harder & Steenbeck. Their Evolution line of airbrushes offers tremendous versatility as well as simple user service and maintenance. Having tried Olympos, several Iwatas, and Aztec, I can't recommend these enough. Ultimately you should pick a few airbrushes up and hold them in your hand to see which one feels 'best'. The extent that you feel comfortable with these tools will impact your enjoyment of them.
  • The best practice subjects, for our hobby, are old toys and cheap plastic dinosaurs from Dollar/Pound shops. We need to work on 3-d subjects and lots of classes out there focus on working on flat surfaces. The important lessons about cleaning & maintenance are well covered via Youtube videos. Youtube is a gold-mine of airbrush educational resources! Look for Scale Model painting and Model-Train painting video & links.
I really enjoy airbrushing. I'm pants at it, but always getting better. As a tool, I find I 'go to it' as often as I can since it does a tremendous job and allows me to do things I would never have tried. It is great for terrain work, especially bits like rivers. I do all my priming with my airbrush now as it is easy to control and very cost effective.

@DFlynSqrl: GREAT to see you so well set-up!

Hope you have fun with this Gamer Mac,
Thomas
Television is rather a frightening business. But I get all the relaxation I want from my collection of model soldiers. P. Cushing
Peabody Here!

Offline ardbeg

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Re: Air brushes
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2010, 06:04:24 PM »
I personally have a harder steenbeck ultra and I am very pleased with it.
I second the recommendations above : cleaning is vital and time consuming
but once you get used to your airbrush it is a real pleasure to use it  ;)

 

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