News from studio "Siberia - miniatures"

[cuprum]

Unfortunately, the sculptor whom I have employed for this work works very slowly. It is necessary to kick it much.
Here a site on which you can find the information on the Polish military vehicles:
http://derela.republika.pl/armcarpl.htm#ac
If the command of the Polish armoured car is necessary to players - certainly I will make the Polish crew.
Question of a uniform of Poles difficult enough.
The basis of the Polish army for that period was made by the contingents which were earlier a part of other armies - German, Austro-Hungarian, Russian, French. Therefore originally in the Polish army uniforms of the sample of all these countries rushed.
As the regulated uniform the uniform based on the French uniform, but with the Polish signs on distinction and headdresses has been accepted. Colour mustard.
In a reality all these uniforms + deliveries from Antante rushed. There is even a mention of delivery to Poles from the USA the Mexican horse equipment and a uniform!
The only thing that it is possible to tell - all uniforms in one military unit were, basically, one sample.
In army the French and German helmets have been widely widespread.
The Polish artillery. In quantity the French guns of 75 mm, 155 mm prevailed. There were also German 77 and 105 mm of a gun, Russian 76 mm of a gun.
Poles had 24 tanks Renault FT - 17.
On the Polish army I suggest to create a separate theme and there to collect available data.

[Hammers]

Unfortunately, the sculptor whom I have employed for this work works very slowly. It is necessary to kick it much.

  What is he, a serf?

[cuprum]

Worse! He is a loafer and dunce. But the talented!  
There is a saying in Russia: "The hedgehog - a proud bird. While it is not kick - it will not fly."  
He, like this hedgehog.  

[Remington]

Hahaha! That is a great saying!

[ts]

Polish uniforms 1918-1921 are a very wide and open field.

One has first to decide, which unit one is to portray, where it was raised, where it fought and then the date, as the uniforms constantly changed all after supplies either bought, taken, locally produced or coming from France, England, Italy, Austria, or USA.

When the different uprisings started, the infant Poland had very few regular troops. One of these was the later 8th Lancers, the former Austrian Lancer-regiment Prince Poniatowski, which went over with all its equipment.
Else the first units were volunteer units, clad in whatever they could muster and just with a white eagle on the headdress and a red-white rosette or red-white armband.
In the Poznan area, the earlier German area Pommern, the units were clad in uniforms from the former Polnischer Wehrmacht with some red-white stripes on their collars. The Polish Poznan troops were the best uniformed and equipped, as this area still had the industry to produce, while the rest of Poland had been ravaged totally for everything useful.
In Gallizia, the former Austrian and Russian areas, the uniforms were mainly put together from whatever could be found of Austrian uniform parts or what could be taken as booty or produced locally.
The Polish troops returning from Russia, one way or another, came forward in their former Russian gear, when the uprisings started. Details from the Russian cavalry (coloured cap bands and dark blue trousers with stripes) uniforms very much influenced the uniforms of all the cavalry and horse artillery.
The Blue Corps of General Haller arrived fully uniformed and equipped in French gear, just with a kind of Rogatywka instead of French headdresses. The French uniforms were of very bad quality and as soon as possible changed (but also political reasons were behind the change) to the Polish uniform M.1919, but very few regiments got these uniforms before the War ended. The former Legionaires of Pilsudski seem rather fast to have received the new khaki uniforms. Exactly when and which regiments got the new uniforms seems not to be known at the moment.
The French helmets were rather useless, being badly produced in thin materials and so the were discarded, whenever the soldiers found a possibility to do so. The Italian helmets were more liked.
German and Austrian helmets were mainly used by assault troops and especially the machine gun companies. Generally helmets were not worn, as the risk of head wounds from shrapnels and artillery fire was minimal.
The way of warfare in Poland - and Russia around 1920, was quite different from the fightings on the Western fronts. In the East it was highly fast and mobile warfare, none of the warring parties had much artillery or heavy equipment of any kind. The most important weapons were light and heavy machine guns and mortars. The more the better.
It was mainly an infantry war, until Budjonny arrived with his massive 1. Cavalry Corps and Gayda with his GayCor. Then also the Poles had to organize big cavalry units. But up to then, the cavalry was mostly used for reconnaissance, out-posts, liaisons and minor actions.

The headdresses were vary varied.
The little cap with brim, the so-called maciejowka, was a kind of national cap and can be found in many variations. This cap was the most common in the beginning - except for for the Poznan troops, who wore the four-cornered Rogatywka, a cap in the form known from the Polish lancers of Napoleonic fame.
Also field caps in different forms were used.
The new uniform M.1919 brought a Rogatywka to the whole army, but in many different forms, as no two Poles wore their caps modelled in the same way. Up to then many of the soldies also formed their caps into the four-cornered Rogatywka style, as best could be done - with cardboard, wire or whatever.
The Rogatywka M1919 was first worn without stiff top, but Pilsudski asked the troops to use the stiff form. A few later it was back to the soft form well known from 1939 and later.

Only one thing can be said for sure: on all Polish caps of the periodwere the white eagle - in different models.
When in comes to the systems of officers and nco distinctions, several were in use up to 1919.
The chevron system on the cuffs in the Poznan Army, the Austrian system with stars on the collar and the system from the Legions. From 1919 a totally new system was introduced with ranks on the shoulder-straps and caps.

When it comes to Polish uniforms 1918-1921, whatever the regulations of 1919 say, then it is possible to find find a contemporary photo, which shows a soldier dressed in something else.

The uniforms of the armoured car guys, from 55th Infantry Regiment (a Poznan Regiment) have been in a field grey (German field gray) uniform, it could have a light brown/green tinge.

The picture with the colours being decorated is very interesting.
The uniforms are not special. The overcoats does not look French, but rather Polish, German or Russian (Russian overcoats were much very liked by all combatants, if one could get hold of one. The officers wear side caps and cavalry caps. The higher officer and his staff doing the decoration seem to be in Austrian cavalry jackets with fur collar.
The regiment seems not to be a regiment from the Haller Corps, as the colours being decorated must be some of those presented by some local area. It is not colours of the later authorized type, nor the type presented to the Haller Corps in France. Those shown must have been red with white/silver pipings and eagles. Most or all Polish regiment carried their colours into battle, at least until they met Budjonnys 1. Cavalry Corps.
It could be rather dangerous for a Polish regiment to carry their colours into the field, as any regiment, who lost its colours, would be stricken from the army lists and disbanded.

The artilleryman is from 3rd Poznan Foot Artillery Regiment. His uniform is light grey. The stripes on his collar are red-white.

The men and officers of 4. Regiment Lancers, Zaniemenski, originated from the Eastern 1st Polish Corps of general Dowbor-Musnicki and took effectively part in the November 1918 uprising in Warsaw and the following disarmament of the Germans. It became a very mixed regiment with men from many other units. It fought all along  the Eastern fronts. 1919-1920 it took 208 prisoners, 500 horses, 4 guns, 13 machine guns and 4 colours.
The regiment had light-blue/middle-blue cap band and light-blue over white lance pennants.
Here the men and officers of the machine gun company are shown in Austrian type jackets with fur collar, their caps have the typical metal edge on the shades, which was introduced late in the war and they are wearing their white parade tassels at the shoulders. The picture is perhaps a little later than 1920-21.

The two privates are from 1919-1920. The soldier to the right has an American belt. Their uniforms are in some kind of dark khaki (English nuance). On the collar they have the white wézyk (officers wézyks were in silver), the collar zig-zag ornament known from earlier period uniforms. These two fellows have not been members of the former Legions, as in that case the wézyk should have run along the top of the collar. That was changed before the war ended, so all had the same type wézyk as seen here.

The last picture shows Poznan troops on parade and you see the officers rank distinctions on the cuffs. Uniforms grey or grey green.

I have not uploaded any pictures with this, as I have not yet discovered how to do it.

[traveller]

Great info ts, most informative, thanks!

I also struggled with the photos inthe beginning but for me the best choice was to open a www.photobucket.com account, upload the images and the copy the IMG tag into the post. Knowing the number of photos you have on the subject I think the Prof need to get another server once you get a grip on the how-to 

[David]

I used photo bucket to uplosd these pictures and not to hard.
open a account
then find a picture on the net.
Right click the mouse to save picture to your computer (save picture as)
save to desktop, since it easier to find from photobucket.
go to photobucket.
Click upload now
Click Choose file
click desktop
and look for you picture and click it
then click open bottom left
click start uploading
click Save and continue to my album
the picture is now in your photobucket account

The next step is to put it on LAF
open LAF an log on
open topic you want to load a picture, say
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=23023.75

click reply or start a new topic
click on Insert image, just above Grin
[img   ]http://where to insert link to picture[/img]
then go to photobucket and put mouse over picture
Direct link and copy
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w107/dburns_04/polish10.jpg
and paste between img
[img    ]http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w107/dburns_04/polish10.jpg[   /img]
i have put in spaces at /img  so you can see how it is done
you can click on preview to see if it has worked, when you are happy then you can save it
and hope it works






Hope this helps
David

[ts]

the picture shows a mounted messenger from 4th Infantryregiment

surprise, surprise

it worked 

[ts]

a few more


Regimental staff, possibly from a cavalry regiment 1920.

When one looks a little closer at the picture, it seems to be a brigade staff - at least.
On the left a private trooper in a simple dark khaki brown jacket without breast pockets, a sign of his lowly status.
Then comes a lance, which seems to have a dark coloured stripe dividing the two light colours of the lance pennon. Possibly the pennon of the command post/group/squadron.
Then comes the staff trumpeter, who even in the field turns up with trumpet banner on his cavalry trumpet. The banner is possibly Polish red with a Polish eagle and leaves plus banner trimmings in silver. His uniform seems to be dark khaki like that of the trooper.
Next comes an officer from the Horse Artillery, wearing what looks like a leather jacket. He is the only officer not wearing the official officers cap M.1919, a typical trait with the Horse Artillery, which acted as and certainly was an elite corps.
In the middle with the map is the leading officer, possibly a colonel or general. The cavalry officers are clearly obvious with their large metal edged brims on their caps. Also the different coloured regimental cap bands seem to be visible on some of the officers, some with a dark colour others with a light colour cap band.
Most of the uniforms, I guess, are in different shades of khaki, even if the two officers in very light coloured uniforms can be from a regiment in some carry colour uniform, maybe made from cloth obtained from the Americans. But for that matter, it can also be light grey uniforms.
The officer with the map case, on the right of the head huncho, is in a double rowed jacket, can be from a Poznan regiment with their Prussian ulankas. In that case his jacket and trousers are some kind of field grey, or some grey green.
None of the cavalry officers seem to wear the else very popular dark blue or black cavalry pants with red stripes.
The muster of the estandart in the background is not recognisible, but a good guess would be white and red with a regional emblem in the middle and maybe also emblems in the lower corners.


another staff 1920


Polish machine-gun detachment


Marschal Pilsudski arriving at Berdyczow 5. Mai 1920.
Here can be seen one of the regulation colours.

[David]

Great pictures
Happy to see you have mastered putting images on the forum
hope to see loads more from you in the next year
David
ps do you have any pictures of artillery?
What make is the machine gun in the cart?
not sure if we should start a new topic for this? (Polish war 1920)

[ts]

Polish Horse Artillery

I found over 100 pictures of different quality.
Those I have sent you directly, as I find it would be a little too much to put up on this site.
Anyone else want a copy of the pictures, they are welcome.

[Poliorketes]

ts, that's great stuff! Just one correction to avoid confusion:

In the Poznan area, the earlier German area Pommern, the units were clad in uniforms from the former Polnisher Wehrmacht with some red-white stripes on their collars.

The Poznan Province was called Westpreußen / western Prussia, while Hinterpommern / farther Pommerania (the area around Szegedin) was to the north and only went polish in 1945. I would be rather surprised to learn from polish uprisings in Pommern, the population being in the vast majority german. Today both areas are polish with mostly polish population.

[ts]

You is correct.
Always a problem what name to use, when the borders have been changed over the years.
To really get a grip on it, one has to use a map from the period. The Poznan State then was the area around the town Poznan.

[ts]

... and now for something more colourful with the Polish cavalry.


The 3rd Lancers in the Battle of Slutzk1919.
The artist has got the jackets a light blue tinge, it seems. Or it can be the photo.

here is a better more correct post card depicting the same uniform.

[Remington]

Very interesting pictures, but I also think that it would be better to start a new thread concerning this new interest. Let's allow this one to be for Siberia miniatures news.